How you can make such statements in English as bad as that and expect to be taken seriously, I simply cannot imagine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
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How you can make such statements in English as bad as that and expect to be taken seriously, I simply cannot imagine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Erm Bolton midnight. I was referring to the reliability of more modern fiats
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Actually Daniel I think you missed the tone.
I think it needs far more exclamation points !!!!! and BIGGER letters and maybe an imbedded version of Monty Pythons Drill Instructors so we have the screeching rising pitch in the voice as he's outraged more and more alternating with the indecipherable grumbling....
Try that, would ya? (don't know how but give it a go, eh)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...y-2168107.htmlQuote:
Cameron has managed to conjure a narrative where this was all the result of "big government" doing "too much". It took footwork of such genius that it makes Fred Astaire look like Ann Widdecombe, but he has managed it for long enough to sound plausible to some.
Many of those foreign car makers having manufacturing bases in the UK commissioning contracts from British suppliers which were worst hit by the credit crunch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
The British suppliers would have been decimated had it not been for the scrappage schemes both in the UK and on the continent, but since they aren't names you'd recognise I guess they don't matter even if they employ more people than the car manufacturers do in the UK.
Well,just how many parts on the average car are made in the UK?
I repair and order lots of replacement parts that are labelled OE (Original Equipment) and the very largest majority are made in anywhere but the UK.
Bosch,Michelin,Bridgestone,NGK,Nippon,and now more and more components are being made in Korea,China,Portugal,Spain,Slovenia ,Slovakia,etc
all due to the fact that labour costs in the UK are too costly.
Quite a few actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by driveace
Most car manufacturers will buy in entire subsystems from suppliers to screw together to make the car with the vast majority of parts in a single car not built by the maker itself. Many of those parts are built in Britain and the supply industry here employs far more people than the car makers themselves.
Also unlike the car makers these supply manufacturers are often small to medium sized and don't have the luxury of a large cashpile to tide them over.
Therefore the drop in demand with the credit crunch linked with the refusal of banks to loan these companies bridging loans almost wiped them out. The scrappage scheme warded that off.
The other thing about the scrappage scheme was that it barely cost the taxpayer a penny in the UK. Of the 2k given half was supplied by the car makers and the remaining 1k by the government, but the VAT on the average car paid to the state was higher than the money stumped up by the government anyway. It paid for itself.
Please don't bring facts into this Dylan......Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
I tried this before and it didn't work because people simply don't want to accept that Labour did something good.
Purchase price for our Fiat 500 = £10,720
VAT component of said car (VAT rate was 15%) = £1398
Govt scrappage contribution = £1000
Net profit to govt = £398
But hey whatever :D In some ways I'd rather that people like Bolton Midnight believed that an immigrant like myself had got his hands on 2k of his hard earned tax money and sent it away to Poland never to be seen again :rotflmao: It's far funnier than seeing that the Labour govt actually did something intelligent to stimulate the economy and keep manufacturing jobs in the UK.
Facts can be a bit inconvenient at times can't they :p : For example: Britain's debt at the outset of the current economic crisis was lower than it was under the Conservatives in 1997.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Funny that :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Oh well it took a long time for the Conservitardem's to get in because they were **** and when they inevitably **** it up it'll just take longer for the next Conservitard government to get in. So it's not all bad.
Your not thinking of standing at the next election,for the Labour party are you Daniel?
Or related to Peter Hain,by any chance?
And just how many conponents for the Fiat 500 do you think are produced in the UK rather than Italy,Slovenia,or Slovakia
By the same token, are you thinking of standing as an easily led farm animal at the next election?Quote:
Originally Posted by driveace
Or you related to related to related to Ken Livingston's father's uncle's tailor? Are you? Well?!?!?! ARE YOU!!!!!! I NEED ANSWERS TO MY COMPLETELY UNRELATED QUESTIONS WHICH ARE POOR ATTEMPTS AT DIGS! I NEED ANSWERS MAN!
I don't know how many components from the 500 are manufactured in Britain, I suspect that few if any components are made in the UK, but as the VAT component was more than what the government gave me in scrappage it's a slightly irrelevant point considering the govt made ~400 or so out of us buying our car.
Stick that in your socks and pull them up!
P.S I only mention the pulling up of socks as this was what Cameron said the country needed to do as a whole, presumably so whilst people were bent over he could take them up the arse as he's doing now.
:up: A bit eloquent, but I like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Wonder how well the students will respond to any future ‘budget’ proposals presented by the hierarchy.
Nothing like the separation of classes - sorry, no pun intended.
Don't suppose they'll be too impressed by the latest unemployment figures:Quote:
Originally Posted by AAReagles
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12223226Quote:
One in five 16 to 24-year-olds are now out of work, after a rise of 32,000 to 951,000 without jobs, the highest figure since records began in 1992.
One in five out of work. How many in five still in education, I wonder?
EMA protests.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12216294
I can't say I have any sympathy. I didn't recieve EMA when I was at college. I had a part-time job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazell B
LINKQuote:
At the end of 2009, 183,200 (9.2 per cent) of 16- to 18-year-olds were (not in education or training) NEET but rates vary considerably with age – 4 per cent of 16-year-olds, 6.2 per cent of 17-year-olds and 16.9 per cent of 18-year-olds. For most young people, being NEET is a temporary outcome as they move between different education and training options – surveys estimate that only 1 per cent of young people are NEET at ages 16, 17 and 18.
Nice to see Fire Extinguisher yob got sent down
Quite right too, hope they send a few more of them down, wreck their adult lives serves them right for being thick little idiots
Still waiting to be told what makes the foreign car part manufactures so worth saving over more UK based industries that also have been and no doubt still are suffering?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Clueless
UK based car parts makers WERE saved, as well as UK car dealers and other parts of the UK car manufacturing and retail sector. That foreign car parts manufacturers were helped too does not preclude British parts makers from being helped does it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Very very happy to see that pathetic moron got caught. Could have done with longer if you ask me, but at least its had a significant dent on his life thus far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
I told you before, don't bring facts into the argument...... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
Who? Can't see there being much on a crappy Fiat, Kia, etc that was made in the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
And what made them so much more important than all the other industries that Mandy deemed not worth helping?
A reduction in Business Rates would have helped UK firms and all of them not just the chosen few who offered Mandy a big bung / job.
Agreed should have been a lot longer and Attempted Murder charge too.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndySpeed
Whilst I don't know how much of a well built Fiat 500 is built in the UK, the VAT component more than covers the contribution by the government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
I didn't realise FIAT and Kia were top sellers in the UK. I was under the impression that companies like Vauxhall with a substantial British supply base competed for top spot with companies like Ford that also derives a lot of its parts from the UK. I also thought that cars like Civics and CRVs, Micras and Avensis' sold well too, again with parts mainly manufactured in the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
As for helping other industries, you're right that more could and should have been done. However since the car scrappage scheme pretty much paid for itself it didn't cost the taxpayer anything unlike reducing business rates.
http://www.fiat.co.uk/Content/Article.aspx?id=20279 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
Utterly clueless
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...e-foreign.html
It benefited foreign car makers far more than the British workers, they just had to pay for it
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/bargain..._page_id=53949
The real cost of ministerial largesse is suddenly clear. Peter Mandelson's £300 million scrappage scheme to subsidise new cars gobbled up a staggering 48,387 taxpayer years. Yes, an army of almost 50,000 working people was harnessed to fund a scheme that Lord Mandelson's own officials thought was poor value for money.
British workers didn't have to pay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
You seem not to know how the scheme was financed.
1k came directly from the car maker the car was bought from.
The other 1k came from the British government, but the state still charged VAT on each car of 15%. Therefore in order for the state and therefore the taxpayer to have made a loss the car would have had to have been sold for less than 6.67k. Its difficult to find cars that cheap so actually the state probably made a profit out of the whole scheme as the amount they got back in VAT probably exceeded what they had spent in the first place.
Simple maths really.
Your second posted article is utterly irrelevant to the topic at hand. Ford and some other car makers have indeed raised prices substantially but the scrappage scheme had nothing to do with it. Blame the exchange rates.
Prior to the scrappage scheme the car firms were offering bigger discounts than 2k on a lot of the models that were popular under the scheme so it ended up being no better for the buyer.
It did cost the tax payer, the extra admin alone would have outweighed the extra VAT.
And it did benefit foreign companies far more than British ones.
It was a silly idea and just yet another of Labour's many cock ups, keeping VAT at 15% for two years would have worked better.
Car firms were also offering discounts alongside the scrappage scheme which was merely an extra inducement to buy. Discounts were not banned during this period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
Car sales rose during the scrappage scheme though not to pre-crunch levels, but enough to tide the car industry by. Therefore it was not a failure.
Dropping VAT by a mere 2.5% did little to boost sales but meant that tax income dropped substantially and retailers had to spend a lot of money doing the number crunching and repricing that came with it. Smaller businesses were hit harder with those costs. The VAT cut was worthless. You really do choose the oddest things to criticise the labour government on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight
I fail to see how anyone can class the Scrappage scheme as a success?
By the time administration etc is taken off, the scheme would at best not have cost anything to the Government some people claim.
Whoopee do?????? A scheme by Labour that hasn't lost money.
So, what benefit did the country gain out of all these sales or is VAT just a bit of a laugh now. What services were provided for the British people?
None? Nothing at all? Why? Because as Bolton has demonstrated, about 90% of the revenue raised, including all the revenue that were being raised before this disaster was dreamt up, went to foreign companies.
Daniel might be fully behind it because it helped him buy a tarts handbag and well done to him but lets not delude ourselves into saying this was a brilliant economic success.
Indeed. The Tories have so far failed to provide a safe pair of hands where the economy and NHS are concerned, nor have they been capable of keeping their promises but we'll see how things develop in the coming months and years.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
On the NHS I disagree. The Tories have shifted priorities from increasing the volume of work to improving the quality, making it more consistent across the UK. I think the forthcoming reforms will, whilst not saving as much money as promised, build on the reforms the Labour party instituted whilst correcting their most obvious failures.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Again, time will tell. I'm yet to be convinced that Tory NHS reforms are anything more than privatisation by the back door.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
Pause for thought - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...blow-nhs-apart
Having worked in the NHS and watched Labour give private companies priority over the NHS when bidding for contracts I find accusations that the Tories are going to privatise the NHS rather rich I'm afraid. The Tories are going to alter the way private companies bid for contracts but the fact is that private companies have bidding for NHS contracts for the better part of a decade, and large chunks of the NHS was already privatised under Labour such as the cleaning and logistic section. Where were the complaints about privatisation then?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Google ISTCs, PFI hospitals and Connecting for Health for starters.
The area of the NHS that my mum works in was privatised some years ago after prolonged strike action. If it wasn't the longest strike in NHS history it was one of the longest. I can more than talk about privatisation, striking and ballots. Maybe people are more interested when it concerns them. Proposed NHS changes do affect alot more people hense more people now seeming to take issue with the part privatisation of the NHS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
The deals reduced or went away altogether once scrappage came along, even Labour acknowledge it wasn't such a great idea.
Car sales were still dire, being a bit less crap doesn't count as a success you know? How are new car sales like now, post scrappage? Not to mention the number of folk who bought new cars who can't afford new cars, then there's the environmental impact of scrapping perfectly good motor cars just so a bloke called Keith can buy some Aramis and some cuff links.
Think most small business left prices as they were so received a small boost to profits.
Fuel in places like Mull is far more than it is in Wales. But I agree the VAT increase and rising fuel prices will do nothing to help the economy. Huge cuts to the non profitable public sector are needed to do that followed by tax cuts, so that folk start spending, but of course the Unions are resisting that as they think it is only right that a bin man or tube driver earns more than a teacher.
NHS was costing more and more yet service was getting worse and worse, billions of pounds are being wasted and if the Coalition can reduce that then that is a good thing.
Strikers should be sacked immediately; scum of the earth to blackmail the nation into giving them more money, greedy *******s. Like these BA lot, utter scum hope they lose their jobs in the long run, that'll learn emQuote:
Originally Posted by GridGirl
Fair enough, you have direct experience of working in the NHS which I do not. I also think privatisation of the NHS has been creeping in over a long period of time and is not just a product of the current government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan H
That said, in May the Tories said they would put an end to "top-down reorganisations of the NHS" and yet we're now seeing what will be a massive and fundamental reorganisation of the service.