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What's the point of assessing Lindroos in Finalnd. Since he knows the stages well there is no supprise he will show good speed in the car. But what about the other rallies? Is there any sign if they will stick with these two for the rest of 2011 or they will put different drivers in the carQuote:
Originally Posted by COD
Quote:
Originally Posted by makinen_fan
Volkswagen to run WRC driver assessment programme through 2011 - WRC news - AUTOSPORT.comQuote:
Originally Posted by autosport.com
For me this is the oppurtunity Lindroos hasn't had yet, his definite make it or brake it. Okey, in '09 PSD shootout he broke it, but a win there wouldn't have guaranteed anything yet. Like a success in Rally Finland now doesn't either. The name is out, that's good. True also that he hasn't show the raw speed in this year's FRC, but on the other hand he hasn't showed lack of speed either nor made costly errors - that's part of the sport too - and in my opinion he is solid number 2 in the championship and with Salo's misfortune with the car in Lapua he now have a chance to take the title - this is part of the sport too.
And by saying this I hope I'm not taking anything away from Nikara who has shown exactly the raw speed he holds this year. If his Evo IX puts together he will give hard time to other PWRC drivers for sure.
If we exclude ketomaa and hanninen all the other finish boys are nothing more than finnish specialists... VW need someone that is a rally driver.
And all drivers from south europe are nothing but tarmac specialist... Jep jep... Mikkelsen and Lindroos are just two first name of VW program. I realy think that we will see also some young tarmac spesialist in VW program during this year... IMO you all will be surprised about Lindroos speed in NORF.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Interesting choice so far...if only Mini ddidn't have Meeke he could do a great job for VW. Nikara I think will get a chance at some point, VW is playing the long game here and doesn't need to make any final choice for over a year.
Really nice to see VW is 100% serious from day 1! :)
in NORF yes...elsewhere no. Again it falls down to what VW wants...if they want to spend millions and go the Seat failure way then they can listen to managers and pay LIndroos and some other one dimensional kitten which cannot drive an event without going through the stage a million times before. If they are serious about it they will give hanninen a chance and as a second driver they can have someone with experience for development and as a guide to measure the speed of the the young one.Quote:
Originally Posted by donlorean
Ketomaa lindroos Kopecky and the others must pay to drive and if they are lucky they will deliver and be used in some rounds as wild cards....
Any young and talented driver(no matter where his from) must be fast in they home ground. If not, he'll never get a chance to show his skills in differrent rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
You named Juho Hänninen earlier. When he was at Lindroos age, he was just Finnish/gravel expert. But he get an opportunity from Skoda and use it, and now he is one of best finnish tarmac drivers ever. And still he is fast in gravel... Now Lindroos(and Mikkelsen) has that same opportunity. And few more will get that same chance later this year. VW will check every one of them and choose the best one. Is it Joonas or Andreas or someone else, we will see...
You can't buy that place. If you are fast enough, they will call you. You don't have to call them.
By that criteria they better be on the phone to Bouffier and Neuville too then (if we assume that Tanat and Prokop are signed up to Ford already).
exactly...Lindroos is a nobody outside finland and it will take far more resources to develop him .... so its better to invest in someone who doesn't need too much schooling....
It seems that they are picking a youngster from each remaining country. Will be interesting to see which young Brit gets picked, if any. Also, what about France…. a French youngster driving for a German team??
Maybe then, for next year they will pick the best 2-3 drivers for a campaign in a S2000 in the S-WRC or even IRC for building up experience.
Nasser Al Attiyah was due to sign the 3 years VW contract at the Nurburgring 24 hours, but reports say he refused because his personal sponsor (Barwa?) prefers to trust on the Mini (BMW) option. to defend the Dakar title and have a full program in 2012 wit the Mini WRCar. Al Attiyah only misses Monte Carlo, because he is bussy in South America.
NOT, if I'm not mistaken Hänninen, before he came to Škoda, did only one asphalt event at all (Tour de Corse with Evo IX). His progress came because some people weren't like You and gave him the chance. I really don't think his asphalt took so long...Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
he actually did at least 3 WRC tarmac rounds, two in Spain an Tour de Corse. But before Skoda gave him the chance in IRC, he had already contested twice the whole of PWRC calendar in 2007 and 2008, where he finished 2nd overall. it is not exactly the same situation with Lindroos. hopefully he will be given a chance outside Finland, to prove something and be the next rally star from FinlandQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
If they have the rumoured large budget, why not make an open day in Germany where youngsters without much experience could drive with some one professional to avaluate what they got, it worked for Citroen ( Loeb, Ogier FFSA). Im sick of seeing always the same drivers get tons of chances and ending up crashing tons of cars or not showing results, and they continue burning through cash and squashing other people's opportunities.
Red Bull has done it some years ago and came up with Andreas Aigner. Which was a reasonable option, considering the limitation of a German speaking only shoot out. Volkswagen can shoot out any talent from every nation.
I agree, Joonas is nobody. But they still choose him. I just wonder why?Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Can you name some one who is young enough and doesn't need schooling? Tänak has five years deal with Ford. Is he ready? Prokop also, is he ready? Boufier and Neuville? Are they ready?
All youngsters need miles and miles and miles. On gravel. On tarmac. As much that its possible. That is the only way. But first you have to be fast in your home ground. Then you might get a chance. Hänninen drove thousands of kilometers testing in tarmac and now you can see the results.
Looking at the press release I can see VW adopting the senior / junior team approach, so 2 places may be up for grabs. I also think they have a good idea who they'd like already but are seeing how the chosen triallists compare with experienced Skodaistes. Remember, the drivers selected can continue their development through to 2013 (i.e the rest of this season and all of next.). Tanak may have a 5 year deal with Ford but for what? All contracts can be ended by appropriate compensation. Hanninen and Kopecky must be the yardstick for the triallists. Bouffier, Neuville, Tanak, Weijs, Abbring and Wilks are all possibles as are Sandell, Grondal, Paddon and Flodin. It will be interesting to see if the VW entry is still made for those events not having an SWRC roundQuote:
Originally Posted by donlorean
As for schooling, Weijs sat in the Skoda for only 2 hrs prior to Ypres and finished 2nd of the non-Loix entries. True talent has a habit of being clear to see, Weijs and Tanak are my predictions
Mr hanninen attended a tarmac rally school in italy at his own expense if i am not mistaken, so i expect if anyone wants to become a manufacturer driver to spend some of his own money...i doubt any serious manufacturer would pay a driver and develop him from scratch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
they picked him to test him.....not to sign him.Quote:
Originally Posted by donlorean
As i said....none of the youngsters tou mention are ready yet...and thats my point they have to spend some of their own money to become as ready as possible because none will take the risk to develop a driver while in a manufacturer team especially now that only 2 cars are allowed.
Well, Ypres is a rally where Hans Jr must be fast... And he was. But he was not shocking fast in Finland or Sweden so he also need schooling...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
I think that Ogier before he came to Citroen and drove one season of JWRC, did only three seasons of one-make cups in France with small cars like 206XS. Another example could be Neuville who is supported by PSA since a moment when he drove only some one or two years with small cars. These two definitely were developed by manufacturer effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
In my opinion if VW now picks Lindroos and he shows something in NORF, they can let him drive Fabia S2000 in next years WRC events (which is basically similar to what Citroën did with Ogier in 2008) and that all would happen before they enter WRC, so there isn't that much risk in it besides quite a lot of money spent but they can afford that like Citroën could.
As they will do with many other young drivers during this year... Joonas is not the chosen one yet. I know that. Like i said, he has an opportunity and it's in his own hands... For now it looks that VW will use some money for schooling...Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Do you have any names?
Its not about naming names or nationalities.....i just think that VW will not risk too much on their first year of involvment...like mini...they will probably go for 2 established drivers in the WRC/IRC who can be consistent and fast and then they will offer 2-3 private cars to privateers with deep pockets...then if they see that the car is good and can challenge for wins and championship they will open their market to some young guns with future prospects.
Lindroos and the rest are just going to have a small test for future reference, but if they want to aim for that seat they are going to have to leave the confort of the special stages they know by heart and show some skills on grounds they do not know that well.
Most of those young talents just doesn't have money to do that. My opinion is that it's not just a "small" test. VW is realy looking for someone. I think that Hänninen might be a guy who built and test that car at first. Few young and talented guy will get a chance to show what they can do with a car, then they pick up one for schooling like Citroen did with Ogier.. And I also think that Lindroos isn't only "nobody" on that list...Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
you have a wrong perception of how things work on the higher level.....very few people can help you, but you are happy so its fine by me...
When was the last time in the modern financial era that a new manufacturer took a risk like that ??
I might have. But what I know about that VW small(as you say) testing program, they'll but hell of a lot of money and resourses on it. And I'm not talking about drivers now. If they do it just for fun, then it's just waste of money, and first time in modern financial era as you said. With all that money, there must be some plan behind all this. And you know that plan just as well than I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I hear the name Duval with VW ;)
N.O.T again I do not understand your attitude, but fortunately you are coming little bit softer when the discussion goes forward. Lindroos is nobody internationally for sure but I must take my hat off for VW company when they give him possibility to so his driving skills. Joonas do not have rich family behind him and I know that he can`t afford to drive even with group N subaru in Finnish series without help of Tommi Makinen. Maybe Tommi has something to do with this VW case. Lindroos comes from a family who`s hobby has always been rally driving. His father, mother, sister, grandpa , and uncles have all driven rallies in national level and they are still driving. His greatuncle ( 67 years old) still competes in finnish rallies with a car worth some 5000 euros.
Most WRC rallies are driven on gravel so it is limited number of good candidates with enough skills. Paddon, Tänak maybe Semerad and Neuville are good but who else. Finnish youngsters Nikara , Esa-Pekka Lappi and Korhonen are fast but where is the money, they do not have rich fathers like Mikkelsen and Ostberg . And Jouhki is not taking them forward as he did with Mikkola, Kankkunen Rovanperä, Mäkinen etc. Hänninen had luck when Kuistila and few others helped him to international level.
I am sure VW would like to take German driver but there is no one who is fast enough. This Esa-Pekka Lappi, I mentioned, was last year first time abroad. He hired a group N Honda Civic from Schmack motorsport and drove one competition in german series. It was his first rally in tarmac ever and he won his class with 3 min difference and was 7th overall. He is only 20 years old.
ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU VW FOR YOUR APPROACHING TO WRC WITHOUT PAYING DRIVERS.
Are you being sarcastic?Quote:
Originally Posted by ford0
Neuville would be the ideal guy for Deutschland rally, he's mother language is even German his national flag looks like Germany :p .
But I think PSA (Peugeot Belux) will not allow that
Aaron Burkhart (remember him?) Last year's JWRC champ and without support this year. Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a chance in Rally Deutschland.Quote:
Originally Posted by ford0
He is going to start in Deutschland with Fiesta WRC. This weekend he has a test start in Rally Bohemia with Fiesta S2000 from Martin Prokop. And I'm sure he will struggle to keep the pace of front runners...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
Please let us know how he gets on. Straight into a Fiesta WRC is a big leap from S1600. Is Rally Bohemia tarmac or gravel?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Don't think Burkart will be fast enough indeed.
For example Weijs, Abbring and Neuville are faster for sure.
It is tarmac. Result system is already prepared, it's also in English (at the top You have language button): Rally Bohemia 2011 - Results - Rally-BaseQuote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
For Germany (and/or France because it also is not part of PWRC) Hayden Paddon could be interesting choice for VW...
Don't understand why they put killer Mikkelsen in the car.
Where's the dislike button?