Singapore 2008: Briatore and Symmonds resign

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle6834552.ece

Hopefully not a double post? Sounds inconclusive to me.

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If that's all they have then they have nothing. That shouldn't stop them however.

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Originally Posted by DexDexter

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle6834552.ece

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Symonds has been offered immunity from prosecution by the FIA in return for full disclosure about the alleged scheme to have Piquet crash on purpose.

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So that's Piquet and Symonds offered immunity :dozey:

wow what drama so now they want symonds to rat on flav.
I say no chance in hell

Briatore: “F***ing hell . . . my every f***ing disgrace, f***ing, he’s not a driver.”
so why pick him up for this year ?

Seems like everybody's being offered immunity except for Mr Briatore.

I can't help thinking that Max's final act as FIA president will be to drum yet another of his enemies out of the sport.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Seems like everybody's being offered immunity except for Mr Briatore.

I can't help thinking that Max's final act as FIA president will be to drum yet another of his enemies out of the sport.

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Yeah but this time he's completely unlikeable :D

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Seems like everybody's being offered immunity except for Mr Briatore.

I can't help thinking that Max's final act as FIA president will be to drum yet another of his enemies out of the sport.

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Maybe Max thought he should do something useful for the sport.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Maybe Max thought he should do something useful for the sport.

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Yea like "Overdose" would be my first thought!!!!

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Originally Posted by ioan

Maybe Max thought he should do something useful for the sport.

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I'm no fan of Briatore, but it is not the FIA's role to target individuals that the President doesn't like.

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Seems like everybody's being offered immunity except for Mr Briatore.

I can't help thinking that Max's final act as FIA president will be to drum yet another of his enemies out of the sport.

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I agree with you Dave.

Max has got Flav firmly in his sights.

We know there was a deliberate crash and that it was discussed with at least Pat and Jr.

It is becomming more and more likely that Pat and Jr were not acting independently and my suspicion is that Flav was involved.

However, Pat is taking the fall because if Flav keeps his position, he can still be very beneficial to Flav and have him in his debt.

Problem is, Max has a strong suspicion (because of Pat's statement) that Flav was behind this and ain't gonna be happy having Flav pull one over on him. Max will let the tiddlers get away to nail Flav to the mast.

It's not like Pat and Jr are going to be in high demand around the paddock after this anyway.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

This is where you are quite obviously wrong. If you had read a lot of forums posters opinions rather than keep repeating your own as the absolute opinion, you might have realized this.

This accusation is no more far fetched than incidents that have happened in recent F1 history, and less wild than those that started with a copier worker within a store.

It is in the best interest of F1 to investigate accusations of race fixing and have the accused defend the accusations against them. It is not in the interest of F1 to sweep it under the carpet in hopes that the public and other teams will forget that an accusation never took place.

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:up:

What is F1 if this sort of activity goes on.

It is the clearest form of cheating you can have and if people are happy to allow cheating just so we don't have to punish the wrongdoers then it's the end of F1.

All sports have cheating and that's why the governing body is there to regulate the rules. If they don't then what's the point.

I'm critical of Max and the FIA but on this occassion, they are acting which is right and fair. I'm not too happy in the manner they are attacking this issue but at least they are doing something.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I'm no fan of Briatore, but it is not the FIA's role to target individuals that the President doesn't like.

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I agree with you to a degree Arrows and think this is one of Max's vendettas.

However, in this instance, the means might justify the ends.

If this dictate came from Flav, and Pat takes the fall for it as looked likely, then the person responsible gets away scott free.

That would be far more damaging IMHO.

Interesting stuff ain't it? :D Makes the whole Spygate issue look quite trivial when you consider that Renault have been accused of being happy to let their driver smash into the wall. Heavy penalties need to be handed out for this, the problem being that Flav is such a key figure in F1 that both the FIA and Bernie might not be too happy to chuck him out. I wouldn't be surprised if off-track politics sort this issue rather than facts and testimony.

If that actually happened Henners then it would have been wise for Flav to either out him immediately or drop him in the off season. The only reason that would work in getting him an '09 drive would be if the team could be heavily linked with the crash.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

:up:

What is F1 if this sort of activity goes on.

It is the clearest form of cheating you can have and if people are happy to allow cheating just so we don't have to punish the wrongdoers then it's the end of F1.

All sports have cheating and that's why the governing body is there to regulate the rules. If they don't then what's the point.

I'm critical of Max and the FIA but on this occassion, they are acting which is right and fair. I'm not too happy in the manner they are attacking this issue but at least they are doing something.

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Agreed. IF this is all true and it does seem as if it may be then Flav needs to be banned from ever turning up at an F1 circuit.

F1 needs to be seen to be squeaky clean after everything else that's happened.

The only thing new hear is the suggestion that Pat Symonds has been offered immunity from FIA prosecution. The rest has been clearly outlined by the link originally by the indomitable ioan, and repeated again in my post # 435. The point here is no matter what the WMSC finding is, Flav would be well advised never to fly anywhere near Singapore; not even in transit.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

If this dictate came from Flav, and Pat takes the fall for it as looked likely, then the person responsible gets away scott free.

That would be far more damaging IMHO.

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That assumes Briatore initiated this. Perhaps he did, who knows :crazy: Offering immunity to two of the other principal participants in the alleged "race-fix" suggests publicly that the FIA think he did, and yet the WMSC hasn't met yet. That, IMHO, is the wrong way to go about things regardless of who is (or isn't!) involved.

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Originally Posted by henners88

:up: Yep..

Heres a theory:
Piquet after consulting with his father about his future comes up with a bargaining tool and approaches Briatore and Symonds before the race. He says "I am willing to crash on lap 14 bla, bla bla for the good of the team".... FB and PS both say "don't be ridiculous this is too risky and we do not want any part of it"..
Race day comes and Piquet does exactly what he proposed much to the disgust of FB and PS (hence the abuse and anger on the radio transcript)
FB :“F***ing hell . . . my every f***ing disgrace, f***ing, he’s not a driver.”
Piquet gets a boll**king and him and his father save this experience for a rainy day... 10 months of planning and thinking pass with his career in doubt, and bang perfect... The FIA are approached..

I'm not a fan of Briatore but this kind of scenario does sound plausable to me, especially if Piquet Snr is involved... I guess we'll find out very soon.. :)

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Oh Please !! :rolleyes: kut the krap!! Do you really think Jr has the brains to think all that out? Common!! smell the roses and avoid the bovine manure!!

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Originally Posted by henners88

:up: Yep..

Heres a theory:
Piquet after consulting with his father about his future comes up with a bargaining tool and approaches Briatore and Symonds before the race. He says "I am willing to crash on lap 14 bla, bla bla for the good of the team".... FB and PS both say "don't be ridiculous this is too risky and we do not want any part of it"..
Race day comes and Piquet does exactly what he proposed much to the disgust of FB and PS (hence the abuse and anger on the radio transcript)
FB :“F***ing hell . . . my every f***ing disgrace, f***ing, he’s not a driver.”
Piquet gets a boll**king and him and his father save this experience for a rainy day... 10 months of planning and thinking pass with his career in doubt, and bang perfect... The FIA are approached..

I'm not a fan of Briatore but this kind of scenario does sound plausable to me, especially if Piquet Snr is involved... I guess we'll find out very soon.. :)

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Except your theory doesnt go well with the fact that Renault signed Piquet to another contract for 2009 soon afterwards.

Good-bye Flavio

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

That assumes Briatore initiated this. Perhaps he did, who knows :crazy: Offering immunity to two of the other principal participants in the alleged "race-fix" suggests publicly that the FIA think he did, and yet the WMSC hasn't met yet. That, IMHO, is the wrong way to go about things regardless of who is (or isn't!) involved.

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I agree with you that offering Pat immunity sends out a message that there is bigger fish to fry. We all know there is only 1 bigger fish that Pat implicated.

However, sometimes, you have to get dirty to catch a rat.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I agree with you that offering Pat immunity sends out a message that there is bigger fish to fry. We all know there is only 1 bigger fish that Pat implicated.

However, sometimes, you have to get dirty to catch a rat.

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You know something? When you read the FIA interview with Pat Symonds (see post #435), I had the feeling all along that Pat Symonds was leading in a certain direction, like: "under the present circumstances, it would be unwise for me to say too much, if anything!!" :p :

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Originally Posted by henners88

Valve please read all the posts mate :)

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I have several times, but I am confused as to where you are going with that particular scenario, as there were no smilies to help. :confused:

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Originally Posted by henners88

:up: Yep..

Heres a theory:
Piquet after consulting with his father about his future comes up with a bargaining tool and approaches Briatore and Symonds before the race. He says "I am willing to crash on lap 14 bla, bla bla for the good of the team".... FB and PS both say "don't be ridiculous this is too risky and we do not want any part of it"..
Race day comes and Piquet does exactly what he proposed much to the disgust of FB and PS (hence the abuse and anger on the radio transcript)
FB :“F***ing hell . . . my every f***ing disgrace, f***ing, he’s not a driver.”
Piquet gets a boll**king and him and his father save this experience for a rainy day... 10 months of planning and thinking pass with his career in doubt, and bang perfect... The FIA are approached..

I'm not a fan of Briatore but this kind of scenario does sound plausable to me, especially if Piquet Snr is involved... I guess we'll find out very soon.. :)

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And after all you suppose there has happened neither Briatore nor Symonds did report this premeditated crash from Piquet and on top of it they signed him for another season.
Looks plausible, NOT!

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Originally Posted by ioan

And after all you suppose there has happened neither Briatore nor Symonds did report this premeditated crash from Piquet and on top of it they signed him for another season.
Looks plausible, NOT!

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I understand you can't stand FB. Me neither. I don't get why you're defending the piquets. I don't understand why they shouldn't be treated the same. They were part of it. They only said something when there was no personal benefit from it. Hypotheticaly speaking... of course... since no real proof has been seen yet.

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Originally Posted by eu

I understand you can't stand FB. Me neither. I don't get why you're defending the piquets. I don't understand why they shouldn't be treated the same. They were part of it. They only said something when there was no personal benefit from it. Hypotheticaly speaking... of course... since no real proof has been seen yet.

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There are no winners in this and if proven, and to a degree it has been admitted by the parties, then I hope we never see their sorry faces in F1 again. Not slimey Flav, not the formerly respected PS and certainly not the odious, scheeming, backstabbing Piquets.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

There are no winners in this and if proven, and to a degree it has been admitted by the parties, then I hope we never see their sorry faces in F1 again. Not slimey Flav, not the formerly respected PS and certainly not the odious, scheeming, backstabbing Piquets.

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What kind of proof does the FIA need? The FIA is not a civi court, how are their decisions regulated, do things need to proven as well as in civil court? Can śomeone shed light on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

There are no winners in this and if proven, and to a degree it has been admitted by the parties, then I hope we never see their sorry faces in F1 again. Not slimey Flav, not the formerly respected PS and certainly not the odious, scheeming, backstabbing Piquets.

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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo What a thing to say!! What a terrible thing to say! :(

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

I agree with you that offering Pat immunity sends out a message that there is bigger fish to fry. We all know there is only 1 bigger fish that Pat implicated.

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The FIA might as well come out and say they're pinning it all on Flav. There were three people involved (let's assume there was a conspiracy to crash for the sake of argument) - if two people have immunity then Flav is left with the blame.

Therefore, the only outcomes I can see are either Flav steps down (like Ron Dennis), or the entire team gets kicked out. I don't really see a third way in this.

i think Max will step down happy if he leaves a legacy of a Ron Dennis and Flavio Briatore-less F1 with 28 car grids

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

That assumes Briatore initiated this. Perhaps he did, who knows :crazy: Offering immunity to two of the other principal participants in the alleged "race-fix" suggests publicly that the FIA think he did, and yet the WMSC hasn't met yet. That, IMHO, is the wrong way to go about things regardless of who is (or isn't!) involved.

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Clearly Mosley is seeking revenge on Briatore.

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Originally Posted by christophulus

Therefore, the only outcomes I can see are either Flav steps down (like Ron Dennis), or the entire team gets kicked out. I don't really see a third way in this.

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Renault sack both Briatore and Symonds in order to save face, that's the 3rd option.

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Originally Posted by grantb4

Clearly Mosley is seeking revenge on Briatore.

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Yep, clear as mud.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooo What a thing to say!! What a terrible thing to say! :(

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You don't agree :?:

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Oh Please !! :rolleyes: kut the krap!! Do you really think Jr has the brains to think all that out? Common!! smell the roses and avoid the bovine manure!!

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But what about his father? :vader:

One of the key problems with the whole saga is that if you had a matching contest with Flavio and Nelson Sr. as choices on one side and "lying dirtbag" as one of the descriptions, you would feel obliged to connect that description to both of them. :rolleyes:

ClarkFan

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Originally Posted by fousto

wow what drama so now they want symonds to rat on flav.
I say no chance in hell

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Unless Symonds wants to sleep with the fishes......

ClarkFan

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Originally Posted by Dave Brockman

Seems like everybody's being offered immunity except for Mr Briatore.

I can't help thinking that Max's final act as FIA president will be to drum yet another of his enemies out of the sport.

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Well as Max has often said, "After you get a good whipping, there is nothing better than to give a good whipping."

ClarkFan

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In the stewards' report about that interview, a copy of which has been seen by AUTOSPORT, Symonds confirms that the race-day meeting between himself, Briatore and Piquet did take place.
The stewards reports added: "Mr. Symonds accepted that he had discussed with NPJ (Piquet) the possibility of a deliberate crash at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, although he said the suggestion was raised by NPJ."
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ONLY in F1 does the above admission deserve immunity -- yet another sad day for corporate F1's "ANYTHING for MONEY" policy -- and we of course believe that it is ONLY Renault that SHOULD make such SAD admissions --blame the other guy to make it sound better? better? regardless of who gets blamed for raising such extremely SAD racing attitudes.

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Originally Posted by ClarkFan

Unless Symonds wants to sleep with the fishes......

ClarkFan

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Wouldn't be the first time Flav has "lost" a close associate in dubious circumstances ;)

Well, what do you think. Shall we get Max a pair for his Retirement?

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Originally Posted by ClarkFan

But what about his father? :vader:

One of the key problems with the whole saga is that if you had a matching contest with Flavio and Nelson Sr. as choices on one side and "lying dirtbag" as one of the descriptions, you would feel obliged to connect that description to both of them. :rolleyes:

ClarkFan

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The intricacies of the low fuel load, early pit stop and location and timing of crash, would be well beyond the connivance of 2 X Piquets. Apart from anything else, Jr had to be reminded what lap he was on, for God's sake. :rolleyes: