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Zero tolerance for Nazi-activities!
Let him have his a$$ whipped by dozens of hookers the whole day long if he likes that - thats truely his private stuff (even when this is an unsurpassed embarrasment for a guy acting in publicity - every other heavyweight he has to deal with will ROFL behind his back, none of them can and will truly take him serious anymore).
But making a mockery with Nazi victims is in no way tolerable - so burn him!
Heal the divisions? What planet is this guy on....? They only just begun...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67971
I don't think that MM should be kept around, but the energy crises is already effecting motorsport attendance in the US and it will spread rapidly throughout the world. Thus I think in 5 years it will be a mote point as to who is president of the FIA.
There are many on the suspect list .Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Those responsible will be regretting trying this method .
But we don't know whether that element of the story is exactly as reported. As I said before, I find the notion of Mosley requesting that the hookers dress up and act like that rather unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by W8&C
It's a difficult question, isn't it — many people think that what the likes of Max get up to in their private lives is OK so long as it's kept private, but when it becomes public against his wishes it causes a problem. I tend to think that these things are either fine or they aren't, whether exposed or not.
And , perhaps the only way it might have directly been related to F1 would be to have had the hookers wearing a team's uniforms .
Maybe then it would show bias enough to warrant being turfed .
Thanks :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
My post was in many ways directed to the pathetic ways media and some institutions have tried to push him out. They were too weak, too pathetic, to attempt something in the normal situation, but once a completely irrelevant sexual thing came out (I wonder how many here, or how many of those crying about him engage in similar, if not more perverted activities in the free time), they have been like bloodhounds on him.Quote:
Whatever the morality of Max, it is immaterial now in the face of the damage his position is bringing to F1. He might be a tenatious old buzzard but that scaresly matters any more. Personally, I think he is a hypocrite and has issues that professional counselling will take years to iron out but that isn't a reason for him to quit. What is a reason is that now his position is untenable and he is persona non gratis around most of F1, He has lost the support of FIA members representing over 3/4 of the bulk of the FIA and is seen as a laughing stock (or worse) by anyone that has heard of him, do you not think he should do the decent thing for the FIA and get the hell out of Dodge.
Make no mistake, they are not trying to push him out because of this scandal, there are much deeper reasons for it. This is only used as an excuse. Ioan earlier did something very unusual for him and actually highlighted a good reason why the big players want him out. It is all about money and him helping the lesser organizations. For me to take these organizations seriously, would require them to try to get rid of him for a reason. Like not doing his job properly.
Whilst the first time since the affair came to light when he was on TV (rally at jordan), I was somewhat amused when I saw him, then now it is time to get back to serious business.
Now, I don`t think he has been a particulary good president and I think he is in many ways responsible for the joke WRC has turned to and some of the rules he has been responsible for in F1 have quite frankly been stuff that someone with Down syndrome would see as idiotic, but he has also done some good things, especially with road safety. But the attacks on him for this sex thing have been unjustified, in my view, and I am happy that he won the vote. Let`s hope he will serve his term and then retire.
That doesn`t mean that I respect him as a person, because anyone having extramarital affairs is nothing but pure **** as a person to me.
To carry on doing the job he was doing before this idiocy came out and then retire.Quote:
I ask again, what good is there in him staying on and what can he possibly hope to accomplish?
It will be interesting to see how he will behave from now on and if he will be at Montreal for example at the F1 gp. Because I think he will be and he will make himself be seen as much as possible
LOL. Funny remark, although it has gone over my head why you have "turned" into me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monaro Doorslammer
No doubt soon someone will point out that you might be a member of KKK for this incredibly hateful post towards Swaziland and its people :DQuote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Would you be kind enough to present proof of his nazi-activities :) ?Quote:
Originally Posted by W8&C
the two countries with 60 percent of the FIA's motoring membership had just two votes.
The 24 motoring organisations who urged him to resign last week represented 86% of motorists worldwide.
It has been calculated that, while he is touting a resounding victory with more than 100 of the 160 clubs, the votes of Max's supporters actually represented just five percent of the world's motoring public:
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...647896,00.html
This is a mandate with credibility only for those who believe Mugabe didn't lose the Zimbabwe election and that 98 percent of Myanmar's citizens really did vote for the military junta's new constitution.
it doesn't matter whether you regard the catalyst for this as a private matter, because it spilled into a public arena - as it has on countless occasions in business and in politics before. on max's own logic in handling mclaren, the method of that spillage is not relevant.
once in the public arena it began damaging the sport in ways mclaren never did.
he is a obviously a good enough politician to win this vote, and he chose to exercise this ability without regard to any reasonable judgements of whether or not it was the right thing to do by the FIA in the long term.
political ability as a weapon used without judgement or regard for the consequences of his victory.
That is precisely the reason most people here regard him as unfit for the position.
Very true!Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
And the tenticals of the Anglo-Mafia know no boundries! I have it on good authority,
that they want Max "Sanctioned" This of course will be handled by a "Pro."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Guess this is because they have a WRC round in either 2009 or 2010 (can't remember which) and opposing Max is probably a sure way of losing it.
Regards
Might be an interesting read - BBC's Panorama investigation of FIA/FOM/FOCA Etc...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sta...t_16_11_98.txt
...some of text doesn't quite line up but you'll get the gist
Regards
Which comes back to what I was saying about the position of the motoring organisations within the FIA. Surely this is now pointless?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey T
:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey T
On this, I'm afraid I disagree. If you extend this reasoning, surely public figures would have to declare everything they get up to in private before being caught, and thus have no private lives at all? I don't see why the rights or wrongs of what you get up to in private should suddenly change if you are a public figure and you get caught.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey T
I believe that prominent individuals are entitled to some degree of privacy, and that only when it's in the public interest to know should it be made public — for example, a politician being against gay rights while secretly having gay affairs. OK, so Max took the moral high ground over McLaren last year and is now known to not apply this to his personal life (though, again, that's only when his behaviour is measured against society's perceived norms), but it's a bit of a leap from one to the other.
I very much agree with you there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey T
Hence, basically, why I think he should go, although he may well have been treated unfairly by the News of the World. His subsequent actions are simply not acceptable — worse, in my view, than the original 'offence'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey T
What you suggest will ensure domination of India and China in FIA ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
Lets consider a situation, where every country in world is a member of FIA, what would it be then? Around 220 countries? We have a vote.
The 7 most populated countries all put together ( China, India, Pakistan, USA, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Brazil ) make over 52% of worlds population and could outvote everyone. Do you think that is fair?
China and India on themselves make almost 40% of all votes. Is that fair?
I quite agree. To be honest, this part of it is a side issue. Huge supra-national organisations of any sort can never hope to be totally democratic in this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Already Platon thought that Democracy is the worst possible form of ruling a country, with the exception of Tyranny. Aristotle referred to Democracy as one of the three "bad" ways of forms of country.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
:D
the population or the population density is irrelevant to a fair and democratic vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by F1boat
what he is suggesting is that there should be representation with some weighting towards the number of motorists, not the number of people, given that the FIA - and by extension, Max - purports to represent the world's motorists.
a democratic voting process to achieve pro-rata representation for the world's motorists is a very different thing from a voting process to achieve the voting outcome Mosley wanted.
as has been written here before, the number of motorists in china and india might be growing but is, at present, negligible compared to those in the US, Germany, Canada, the UK, France, Spain, Japan, Italy etc.
A Ruling Council within the FIA is required to control on the direction of motorsport. Countries which have an active participation in international events such as World Championship Rallying, F1, Champcars or whatever it has evolved into these days, and so on should vote on matters concerning the running of the FIA. Countries which have no active participation in International events (including the hosting of such events) would have no say.
So countries like Italy, Germany, France, and the UK which holds International events, as well as having teams in F1 would be the ideal candidate.
The other extreme would be Burma which has nothing to do with International Motorsports of any kind.
If this idea fails, and I am sure it will, then the countries which have a vested and high monetary interest in F1 will pull out of the FIA so that they can control their destiny.
Take crimes as an analogy:Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
as long as the crook can keep his e.g. robberies „private“ everything and everyone ´s cool. But wait `til the delicts become public... Nontheless its illegal in both cases. I guess its fundamental that one can only react to and deal with things when he gets knowledge of them.
for you and me, you are right and it probably isn't relevant. For someone in max's position, it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
I'll explain why i think so.
Max's job entails basically two things. motorsport and some road-safety initiatives.
to gets these jobs done requires the complicity of governments and big business.
if the government of the day is democratically elected, then the electorate will usually have a "moral majority" of conservative voters who will be appalled at Mosley's behaviour.
if this slice of the constituency is not happy with the government maintaining its dealings with a man whose morals they find questionable, then the government is placed in an awkward position.
similarly, if it's an individual politician, are they going to risk taking a road-safety decision that's right for the public if it gives that same public a tangible link between him/herself and mosley, especially in an election year?
there is also the risk that the politicians or senior bureaucrats themselves, in whatever slice of government mosley's FIA is trying to convince, are conservative and will make their personal morals part of their overall decision-making processes.
if it's a national figurehead, there is simply no way the British Queen, the Spanish King or princes from Bahrain or Monaco are ever going to let themselves be photographed with Mosley again. and that rules out Max's future as a "figurehead" president of the FIA.
If it's not a democracy, max will still need to deal with the moral opinions of one man or several men/women. given their positions, you have to assume they will have political strength to at least approach max's, but unlike max, they still need to answer to somebody.
If a government is being asked to invest millions of taxpayer dollars to host a sporting event or entertain a road-safety initiative (eg, building an NCAP test centre), do you really think they won't be worried about their constituents making a link between max's personal morals and his professional morals?
similarly in business, it will not be enough for max to be cleared of the nazi connotations in court, because enough customers already have heard it and believe it.
that being the case, if you're a business wanting to sell into a country where the worst nazi-related activities occured (germany, austria, hungary, poland, russia, romania), you will not want any taint of that stain on your current activities.
and, when two of the six manufacturers in your premier category have wartime business activities that benefited from such activities, don't be surprised if they are shuddering with discomfort, and that this discomfort will have repercussions internally and externally. By WWII alliance, four of the six works teams have an association here.
Benz and BMW (and, as a senior DTM runner, Audi) will have already done studies to measure how many sales they will directly lose for this reason if one of their senior people is photographed with Mosley.
and how do you think it is with Force India's sponsorship and credibility? India is a country where a broadcasting a public kiss is considered insulting to women...
even in companies who support F1 financially, there will be repercussions. Board members will be grilled by any shareholder offended by his personal actions and they will, in turn, grill any senior manager who approved the $30 million sponsorship arrangement with, for example, an F1 team.
once this sort of personal activity spills into the public arena, it is not unreasonable for people to wonder whether he operates so far from the moral and ethical norm in his professional life as well.
but it is mostly because his very being there and being associated with the FIA's management will make decision makers from all sides of the FIA's life uncomfortable - sometimes with reconciling their association with their own standards, sometimes with their spouse's opinions, sometimes with the people they are answerable to in business or politics.
this is why people resign immediately when these sorts of scandals break. it's not because what they've done is right or wrong. it's because the knowledge makes life incredibly uncomfortable and awkward for the people they have to deal with in their business lives. and that makes business and/or politics harder to maintain.
it's something that's done out of respect for the continued effective functioning of the organisation you work for, the organisations you work with and the people in both.
and max doesn't seem to have it.
I read on Autosport (can't find the link now) that Max would not attend a GP until July or August. It seems as if his deputies will be undertaking many of the FIA President's public duties from now on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
I think it is certainly time to reverse the merger of motorsport and motoring activities that was done when Max became FIA President.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Montezemolo: Mosley should quit
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67977Quote:
Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has added his voice to the debate surrounding Max Mosley, calling the FIA president to stand down from his role despite winning a vote of confidence from the governing body's General Assembly.
"I believe he himself should understand that at times it is necessary to say 'I must leave the place for reasons of credibility'."
But someone's private sexual behaviour may very well not be illegal.Quote:
Originally Posted by W8&C
But it becomes the question of their suitability for the job, doesn't it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Like having a homophobic minister responsible for the law on same sex partnerships.
Or a racist in charge of immigration....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey T
Thanks Micky. Spot on.
There will be a time where the motoring organisations of China and India do indeed rank them as dominant players. Even now, they are becoming significant and therefore require appropiate recognition.
However, I cannot see how organisations like the AAA command the same recognition and power as the Vatican in the FIA.
The FIA isn't in charge of any of those activities. :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
Doh! :laugh: But the analogy is the point I was making. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I'm also impressed with the fact that you finally found reason in one of my posts! :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry Walker
Jokes aside, I'm glad to see there are people who think but I'm also sad to see that only one other person around here did understand what this was all about, although the comments of the Dutch representative were quoted a few times in this thread.
People mostly post here because they are in rage, because their emotions, so masterfully controlled by the media, push them to express their frustrations. However very few did try to think about what exactly was the reason behind the votes cast Tuesday.
A whiparound for Max's defence? :D :D :rotflmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Man you're incorrigible! :D
In what way does Mosley's sexual behaviour in itself affect his ability to carry out his FIA role? If we leave out the as yet unproven Nazi element, I don't see the two things as being linked in such a way as the examples you describe where there is a definite 'conflict of interests'.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
But do you not agree that a large element of embarrassment about Max's behaviour, and some genuinely-held views about it being unacceptable, also came into it?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
People hate him or like him depending on what they read about him, not based on what they know about his work.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Most around here have little knowledge about what he did good or wrong for F1. Everything that is bad in F1 is Max's fault, even if in reality it is Bernie's, the teams' or another third party's fault.
Views are based mostly on fiction, that's the problem. People just jump on the bandwagon without actually taking their time to search for data and analyze it.
This is my view.
But surely you can understand why some people who know perfectly well what he's done in his job over the years find the newspaper story so distasteful that it has changed their view of him to such an extent that they don't think he can continue? Not everyone with a vote, nor everyone expressing an opinion on the subject, necessarily bases this opinion on wider motives. You must also remember that there are many people who are very conservative when it comes to reports of sexual behaviour, and immediately think that anything of this nature is revolting. I'm not one of them, mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
I absolutely see where you're coming from, but why should being in the public eye mean that you have to alter your... er, shall we say, personal tastes just because you might end up getting caught by a tabloid newspaper?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey T
This really is quite amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmm - donuts
ioan, in reference to your last post, what do you say to this?
Unless they are some hypocrite puritans I can't understand them.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
It's the mental state of such people, their ability to allow their sexual pursuation cloud their judgement. (If his wife had no idea what he was up to, does that make it OK). That is what I am bleating about.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
I'll give it a read when I have enough time, it looks quite long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
I read a bit and I see someone agrees that it's good that Bernie is working like a dictator. In the same time I recall how people called Max a "bad" dictator (compared to Bernie) for pushing some rules through.
I'll answer you question as soon as I have read the article.
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
I hope you aren't trying to tell us that you don't think about sex. Or that when it happens it will cloud your judgement. :rolleyes:
Leaving aside views expressed on this forum, do you argue that the many voices calling for Max's resignation, both before and after the EGM vote, "hate him or like him depending on what they read about him" or that their views are based on fiction?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan