People Power

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Of course they could find a better job, if they made that a priority rather than sitting around watching TV, or "occupying Wall Street", or b!tching about how unlucky they are, or whatever else one might do rather than improving one's lot in life.

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Pure simple BS.

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Originally Posted by Eki

Much more unemployed.

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So. If one was motivated there are jobs out there.

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Originally Posted by Eki

I don't know about the US, but in Finland it seems that the companies expect the government and/or the applicants take care of the training.

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In the US some do, but some provide training. And as I said there is plenty of opportunity for an applicant to recieve financial aid for said training. Someone would just need the motivation to go through it.

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Originally Posted by Eki

Do they work?

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Mostly yes. But there are issues. No system is perfect.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

How about a Dell? Their profit margin is only 22.9%. Let's bend the curve a bit.



No I understand completely that there is a middle ground. But it's not much fun to debate the middle. ;)

I too have heard from some that have taken part in these protests. The rational ones that really do have a beef are, in my opinion, protesting the wrong thing. They are upset about the bailouts. And so am I. The government bailing out Wall Street firms was horrible. The firms that made bets on risky "securities" should have lost when their bet went south. But the blame for the bailouts lies not with the Wall Street firms (at least not totally), most of the blame rests on Congress.

But the other problem I have with the OWS folks is the fact that even if the majority are there for rational reasons, and they aren't hard core socialists/communists, the "face" of the movement has become those who are. Look at the TEA party as a counterpoint. Yes there were racist @ssholes that showed up to some TEA party rallies, but by and large those people were shouted down and forced to leave. So the "face" of the TEA party is not racist. Does that make sense? I'm not sure I've made that point 100% clear.

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No, you have, and in a very reasonable way. Sorry if any of my contributions towards you came across as unduly aggressive.

However, I think you're wrong about the face of the protestors being seen as the hard left. I think that's maybe the case if one is oneself positioned on the right. To many right-wingers, anyone who takes part in what could be called a left-leaning protest — anti-war marches, the current demonstrations, etc — must be an unwashed, unemployed socialist. I have always found that view quite offensive, as well as simply untrue. And in the UK at least, where politics has thankfully become less polarised than is the case in the USA, I think more people are coming to realise this. The all-encompassing nature of objection to the Iraq war probably had a hand in this.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Of course they could find a better job, if they made that a priority rather than sitting around watching TV, or "occupying Wall Street", or b!tching about how unlucky they are, or whatever else one might do rather than improving one's lot in life.

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It is statements like this one, in fact, that I'm referring to in my post above.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

So. If one was motivated there are jobs out there.

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If everyone was motivated there aren't enough jobs for everybody.

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Originally Posted by Eki

If everyone was motivated there aren't enough jobs for everybody.

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And it is simply not practical for literally everybody to create one for themselves.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

In the US some do, but some provide training.

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But to whom? In the company I'm working for, the boyfriend of the boss's daughter is being trained (funded partly by the government). The wife of the boss is the secretary and their son worked for the company until he moved to a different company.

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Originally Posted by Eki

But to whom? In the company I'm working for, the boyfriend of the boss's daughter is being trained (funded partly by the government). The wife of the boss is the secretary and their son worked for the company until he moved to a different company.

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Ah, the tyranny of the family-run company.