California Budget

Back to the US government taking over healthcare.

Lets look at in simple terms. The government already has three programs that deal with healthcare, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA. Those programs are not run very well (at least by most accounts I've read), and they are going broke.

So in simple terms you have 100 people paying for 20 people to get care (not the right numbers I know, but it's for illustrative purposes only). Having those 100 people pay is not enough because the quality of care is poor and it is not on strong financial footing. Now we're told the solution to all the problems of healthcare are to add the 100 people into the system? That somehow adding MORE people to a program that already doesn't have enough money will somehow make it more financially sound? How does that make sence to anyone?

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Originally Posted by chuck34

But of course you can choose to be in or out of the trade union, or the insurance company for that matter. We have no choice once the government takes over something.

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In that sense, I think government is more like a family. You can not choose your family either. In a family you have a moral obligation to help your family members in need and as a tax-paying citizen you have a legal obligation to help your fellow citizens in need. You could see the US as a family with 300 million members. All for one and one for all.

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Originally Posted by Eki

In that sense, I think government is more like a family. You can not choose your family either. In a family you have a moral obligation to help your family members in need and as a tax-paying citizen you have a legal obligation to help your fellow citizens in need. You could see the US as a family with 300 million members. All for one and one for all.

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Your family (in my definition anyway) extends beyond those with whom you share some blood. It includes friends, neighbors, and even charitable strangers. In some cases I would totally exclude blood relatives. Don't get too hung up on my use of the word "family".

Like I keep saying a legal obligation to do something does NOT mean that that "something" will be any good.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Back to the US government taking over healthcare.

Lets look at in simple terms. The government already has three programs that deal with healthcare, Medicare, Medicaid, and the VA. Those programs are not run very well (at least by most accounts I've read), and they are going broke.

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VA going broke?? Well stop invading other countries and starting wars with countries that dont cater to your every whim then maybe the amount of injured soldiers would not be so high.

Medicare and Medicaid have never been funded well either. In the US its refered to as the 'poor mans healthcare', because poor people are often given inadequate treatment or no treatment at all because treating the poor is not profitable.

http://www.essortment.com/all/nationalizedhea_rtqq.htm

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Your family (in my definition anyway) extends beyond those with whom you share some blood. It includes friends, neighbors, and even charitable strangers. In some cases I would totally exclude blood relatives. Don't get too hung up on my use of the word "family".

Like I keep saying a legal obligation to do something does NOT mean that that "something" will be any good.

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We on these here forum are one big family...

:love:

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Originally Posted by steve_spackman

1) VA going broke?? Well stop invading other countries and starting wars with countries that dont cater to your every whim then maybe the amount of injured soldiers would not be so high.

2) Medicare and Medicaid have never been funded well either. In the US its refered to as the 'poor mans healthcare', because poor people are often given inadequate treatment or no treatment at all because treating the poor is not profitable.

http://www.essortment.com/all/nationalizedhea_rtqq.htm

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1) Seperate issue that really doesn't have anything to do with the current discussion. Look out here comes Eki to tell us how bad Bush is.

2) That is my whole freaking point! We have a system that is not funded. Why not fix THAT first before we go adding a bunch more people to the system? I really don't understand how this is so hard for people to grasp.

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Originally Posted by steve_spackman

We on these here forum are one big family...

:love:

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A disfunctional family I suppose. But as much as I may disagree with some people, if they really needed some help, I'd probably do what I could. As I'm sure many others would.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

1) That is my whole freaking point! We have a system that is not funded. Why not fix THAT first before we go adding a bunch more people to the system? I really don't understand how this is so hard for people to grasp.

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I do agree with you on that one!

Yes get a government funded health plan in the USA, but the current issues with Medicare and Medicaid need to be sorted out.

This i fear could be the reason why SO many people are against a government funded health plan??

We are still arguing over Healthcare? Eki thinks the government is the solution to everything that ails everyone, Anthony is everyman for himself and most of the rest are in the middle.

It is pretty simple. Ideally you would no cost healthcare AT all. But in the world all us have to live in, healthcare is damned expensive, and in the US moreso because of idiocy in the courts over malpractice. As a result docs run tests and procedures often to cover their @sses running up the cost of health care.

I have said it before, government running healthcare is a blessing and a curse.....

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Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

We are still arguing over Healthcare? Eki thinks the government is the solution to everything that ails everyone, Anthony is everyman for himself and most of the rest are in the middle.

It is pretty simple. Ideally you would no cost healthcare AT all. But in the world all us have to live in, healthcare is damned expensive, and in the US moreso because of idiocy in the courts over malpractice. As a result docs run tests and procedures often to cover their @sses running up the cost of health care.

I have said it before, government running healthcare is a blessing and a curse.....

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How about doing away with malpractice suits and accepting that some times errors get made, mistakes happen and 'get over it'.

Whilst they are at it get rid of this ridiculous notion that people in the States have regarding trying to sue the ar$e of everyone and never taking responsibilty for their own actions, because someone else 'is to blame' or is at fault.

Admittedly sometimes a witch hunt is needed but not if you scald yourself because you are too stupid to realise that a cup of coffee you are holding may in fact be hot. :)