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I stand by my point. Plus wouldn't have been great if CART had forced TG's hand? If they had shown up, and had the fastest 20 times (or however many), do you really think the 25-8 rule would have stood? Or if it did that everyone would have seen how unfair it was, and it would have all blown up right then and there?Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Nothing had changed, CART teams were still allowed to run. No matter how you want to spin it.
If I recall any one could run as long as they ran the other races leading up to the 500.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
A - Dumb rule
B - Dumb response
A + B = REGRETTABLE result
I stopped attending the 500 in '96. And now, I doubt I'll EVER go back. I'm one of the forever lost fans.
Ok. Number one, I agree both TG and CART made dumb moves. Number two, if you're a fan lost forever, why are you here? If you keep an open mind and actually watch some races then you can express your opinions. But if you are going to be close minded and "lost forever" your opinion doesn't mean jack to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blancvino
Chuck...you and Deco are dreaming in techincolor. If you really think the CART guys showed up with 24 entries fighting for those 8 spots and had 20 of the top 21 times, you think Tony was going to change the rule? You ON DRUGS? Tony put that rule in there to force teams to either commit to his series for the 500 or stay with CART. There was no choice for the top teams. He was taking their series right out from under them by using their entry in the Indy 500 as the carrot.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
As businessmen, they were going to have to capitulate to be part of the Indy 500. Tony would be twice the village idiot I already think he is if he caved in on that one.
This whole Alice in Wonderland nightmare started because Tony George didn't have control of the series racing at his track and the owners of the teams didn't respect him. He saw that as dissing the Indy 500 and IMS. What it was they had no faith in him. Turns out his sisters and Stepmom don't now either.
All you Tony George apolgists out there cannot shake the few firm facts we have now.
CART in 1993 was getting ex f1 drivers fresh from winning championships. They had teams with bigger than NASCAR budgets, they had TV ratings ahead of NASCAR, they had international interest with real substantial potential for more, and they had 28 to 30 car fields possible at EVERY RACE. The only thing wrong with that series in the eyes of Tony George was that he had no say in it, and he wasn't getting a cut. He felt used.
Well Tony...you used me as a fan because your series had not one half of the fans, killed the month of May as a tradition, did little to put "American" drivers in the seats, and proved once and for all you had no idea on how to run a racing series other than to pour the Hulman money down a hole.
CART's only mistakes were the massive spending they went on AFTER the war with the IRL was truly entrenched. The US 500? I don't know if it was a egreious error or not. I do think it was poorly thought out but the idea of replacing the 500 had some legs at that time when Tony pulled the 25-8 deal on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaparral66
I do know this much. I didn't watch the Indy 500 for 5 years until Penske and Ganassi started going back. I do think THAT was the biggest mistake the CART teams did. They had the highroad and the best talent, why go back and help Tony get oxygen when the IRL was stagnating under such "stars" as Buddy Lazier and Eddie Cheever?
Oh yes...any talk of the stupidity of SCCA Pro Racing and how they killed Can-Am, Formula A and kept Trans-Am alive with bandaids is a silly argument. They couldn't figure out much of anything and never have been good at running Professional racing series. Their misdeeds and mismanagement lessons don't really apply here to the massive stupidity that is the OW war of the years 1995 to 2007
I am lost forever until the IMS is ONLY a track owner and the IRL is pushing up daisies. I will NEVER give credence to anything associated with the grandson's "vision". Call me [fill in the blank], it's not going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
I will always view the IRL as a regrettable miscalculation.
I'm not sure that TG would have changed the rule. What I am saying is if the CART guys had shown up and out qualified the IRL guys in a big way, things would have (or at least could have) blown up and changed future history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
I'm not TG apologists. Read my posts. I'm well aware he has made MANY mistakes. But I am also not a CART apologist. We all need to fact the FACT that both sides screwed up BIG.
And yes CART did get a reigning F1 champ, who was disgrutled with they way he thought he should have been treated in F1. And he was gone in 2 years, before the IRL. And two other world champs that had already retired, but weren't ready for fishing yet. Forgive me for not being overly impressed.
But you are right the IRL didn't work out the way TG, or I, had hoped for. But it is what we have now, and I would like to see it go forward. Aparently some would like to see the whole thing fail just to spite one man. THAT is the sad part in all this.
So again I ask, why are you here? This is supposed to be a forum for FANS which you are clearly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blancvino
You know I've been thinking (I know that's dangerous). But all of you that keep talking about how TG killed "the sport" seem to be CART fans. Well if you look at it, things are now pretty simmilar to CART in '93. If there were just more chassis and engine combinations, it would be exact. So if you would look past your hatred, you'd see the sport you claim to love so much.
It is guys like me, guys that liked the original "vision" who's sport has been killed. We don't get to see guys coming from the midgets and sprints go to Indy. We don't get to see guys put together their own engines with their own little tricks to try and go faster than the other guy. Etc. Etc.
Don't get me wrong I didn't like everything about the original "vision", nor did I like everything about CART. But I did watch, and enjoy, them both. Just as I enjoy (mostly) the current IRL. I just wish that people could see past their hatred of TG, enjoy the sport they claim to love, and yes even point out some of the flaws. But to spout off about how you will never watch the IRL "until the IMS is ONLY a track owner and the IRL is pushing up daisies", is just foolish. At least if you are a fan of AOWR.
Just my 2 cents worth. And I do realize my 2 cents is not worth much to many of you.