It's time to screw Russia over

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Originally Posted by ioan

You see, you gave me the perfect reason why I hate the Romanian society and I don't want to go back. You people continuously cry about everything, still you don't use your right to change your life in better.

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That doesn't necessarily mean leaving for somewhere else. Others may want to stay and make the best of it. They may not have the opportunities to do anything else.

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Originally Posted by ioan

You lot don't know what democracy means, and that almost 20 years after so many died for it. :\

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That really is a very patronising comment indeed.

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Originally Posted by angie1313

Then what type of system works better? Monarchs, Communist states, Dictatorships? They've all worked so well.

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Wasn't Chruchill who said that democracy is an awful way of ruling, yet all other forms are even worse?

^I think it's just what 555-04Q2 said as well. :)

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

All due respect, but thats a very ignorant view to take. If I understand correctly your judging me on where I live?

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Yes, that's what it sounds when you put it out like that. But all due respect, I didn't mean it like that.

What I meant it's not as easy to see all the things Russia do if you don't have the ringside seats as we do.

I said yourself:

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

You may be right. I'm not going to pretend I know the inside out of this story, or that I'm an expect on international issues (albeit I do take an interest).

But thats the facts laid down straight and in a simple form. On paper to me it looks like Russia is in the right, but people think they're wrong because of the bad media coverage they've had, led by the USA.

Whether Russia has an alterative motive, who knows, they probably do to be fair, but nothing will change the fact that Georgia started it by trying to take control of the region. And surely they'd have known Russia would have had to react whilst they had troops there (through an agreement Georgia accepted).

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On paper it can look anything or people may say anything about USA's involment etc. But it's just very black and white. I bet you could have a different view if you'd have a history and their shadow over your shoulders all the time.

My point is that Russia has for years and years done the **** they do and they always seem to get away with it. And it pisses me off. They really are bullies like some already said. Their idea of diplomacy is to scare people silent. Now the opposition here in Finland is whining about our politics that it's way too much against Russia and it's risky. Apparently we have the weakest Russia relation since the WWII :eek: Well dippidii duu. If Russia's idea of relation is; "if you're not with us, you're against us" it's pretty hard to please them... unless you kiss their ***** like these conservative opposition parlament members would like.

I'm not sure whether I like the media novadays? or not It's true we get the news quicker and the whole world is able to see what they've done. But we also get that propaganda so people won't know what part to believe :mark:

Bummer I guess.

Anyway, the point for this post was sorry, didn't mean to be ignorant to you.

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Originally Posted by angie1313

Then what type of system works better? Monarchs, Communist states, Dictatorships? They've all worked so well.

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There is no better system, Democracy is still the best form of governance. However, as I stated, it is still a flawed system. I dont think there will ever be a perfect system where all parties are catered for. Human nature does not allow for it.

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Originally Posted by harsha

very true.... :cheese:

if you want a bigger example,check out India..the so called "largest" democracy around...

the elections are still won by the "caste/religion" route.The policies are very often pro-poor which results in a large amount of Tax Burden to be borne by the guys with the white-collar jobs(the Middle-class)...ironically the middle class has very less voting power(as they currently are a minority-even though they contribute most of the taxes)

i've seen so many governments catering to the minorities...why,cause it's those fools who win them the elections,the middle class people are just bystanders...

as in the government,there is no alternate government....i mean there is no other force in the Country which is worth supporting.What do u expect when the MP's are bought for cash for their vote in a nuclear deal.

I would rather have a dictatorship government like the government of Singapore...

Oh well,one thing i'm glad of that i'm in India is atleast i know the truth(or some semblance of it)...you wouldn't know that's the case judging by some of the posts of the American Members...

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Sadly.....we have the same problem here :(

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Originally Posted by ioan

No it won't, because it will be only a mixed system, not a 100% uninominal, and the same communists that destroyed the country for the latest 19 years will be elected again on their party's lists even if no one wants them in the parliament again.

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AGAIN ????!!!!You use the word " AGAIN "? Who was the one who voted and now is disappointed by his choice? Me or you? Stop voting the communist and the guys from "securitate" and then come here to pull my ears. Even the uninominal vote will bring the same candidates + some "notorious" people who don't know anything about politics like Adrian-the Wonder Kid.
Now let's stop this useless dispute. It's not related to the topic and we risk to bore the others.

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Originally Posted by gadjo_dilo

I'm confused. I admit I don't have much knowledge on this issue but doesn't " your " ( mind the " ", I'm sure you didn't support him ) Aleksandr Lukasenko have a pro-Russia orientation? Am I wrong if I ever heard of a possible union with the Russian Federation?

If I'm wrong please accept my apologise.

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It is a complicated issue indeed and it is not what it seems. It is very far from the picture that the newspapers paint. "Lukashenko is pro-Russian and will sell Belarus the moment Russians come up with a decent bid." Not.

First, Lukashenko is a power freak and he used to nurse an idea of merging Belarus and Russia into a single state and becoming its president. When it did not work he decided to settle for ruling Belarus. Now he does just that and there is no way he is going to cede his power and state sovereignty Russians or anybody else. He tries to be an ally of Russia and does that pretty successfully. The word is that Belarus is dependent on Russian gas and oil, but it is only a part of the whole truth. Belarus has huge oil refineries where Russian oil get processed and the products are sold to the whole world, mostly Europe. The profits get split between Belarus and Russia and that is being done in a clandestine way. I.e. Belarus is an offshore zone for Russian tycoons. Same thing with arms trade. Russia will not sell arms to Sudan, but Belarus will. So Russia sells arms to Belarus at half price. Belarus sells it at full price and profits are shared again. It's a goldmine and this is Lukashenko's leverage against Russians. We are also the only remaining Russia's military ally and we have one of the most capable armies in the Eastern Europe and Russians have no choice but to pay a price for that. Lukashenko's is a rural type of guy, uneducated and ugly but cunny and armed with a set of animal instincts. He knows his trump cards and manipulates Russia pretty well. He also has an exit strategy. Once his relations Russia go sour, he only needs to let the opposition take part in the eletions and maybe win a couple sits, and EU and the U.S. will have to start talking to him. So it's like that no merger with Russia is envisaged any time soon.

Although I would frankly prefer Belarus to be a neutral state, on good terms with both East and West but not being a satellite of either. Oh yeah, and I still dislike Lukashenko. ;)

Thank you Rudy. But still....we can say he's obedient to Russia, can't we?

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Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz

It is a complicated issue indeed and it is not what it seems. It is very far from the picture that the newspapers paint. "Lukashenko is pro-Russian and will sell Belarus the moment Russians come up with a decent bid." Not.

First, Lukashenko is a power freak and he used to nurse an idea of merging Belarus and Russia into a single state and becoming its president. When it did not work he decided to settle for ruling Belarus. Now he does just that and there is no way he is going to cede his power and state sovereignty Russians or anybody else. He tries to be an ally of Russia and does that pretty successfully. The word is that Belarus is dependent on Russian gas and oil, but it is only a part of the whole truth. Belarus has huge oil refineries where Russian oil get processed and the products are sold to the whole world, mostly Europe. The profits get split between Belarus and Russia and that is being done in a clandestine way. I.e. Belarus is an offshore zone for Russian tycoons. Same thing with arms trade. Russia will not sell arms to Sudan, but Belarus will. So Russia sells arms to Belarus at half price. Belarus sells it at full price and profits are shared again. It's a goldmine and this is Lukashenko's leverage against Russians. We are also the only remaining Russia's military ally and we have one of the most capable armies in the Eastern Europe and Russians have no choice but to pay a price for that. Lukashenko's is a rural type of guy, uneducated and ugly but cunny and armed with a set of animal instincts. He knows his trump cards and manipulates Russia pretty well. He also has an exit strategy. Once his relations Russia go sour, he only needs to let the opposition take part in the eletions and maybe win a couple sits, and EU and the U.S. will have to start talking to him. So it's like that no merger with Russia is envisaged any time soon.

Although I would frankly prefer Belarus to be a neutral state, on good terms with both East and West but not being a satellite of either. Oh yeah, and I still dislike Lukashenko. ;)

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What do you think will Russia place missiles in Belarus, now when Poland agreed to take the us missiles on their soil?