Looking at the Wikipedia page for the Citroen C5 they have a 1.8 and 2.0 petrol, perhaps used in China if not in Europe.
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Looking at the Wikipedia page for the Citroen C5 they have a 1.8 and 2.0 petrol, perhaps used in China if not in Europe.
That's really old naturally aspirated engine. I don't know if it's useful. Hopefully Br21 can tell us which engine they used for R5 if it's again the EP6 or some other.
Chassis 234 to Tomasz Kasperczky
https://scontent.fopo2-2.fna.fbcdn.n...98&oe=5A52B182
https://scontent.fopo2-2.fna.fbcdn.n...2b&oe=5A1781EA
236 to Marius Aasen
https://scontent.fopo2-2.fna.fbcdn.n...70&oe=5A5CF77E
Fabia R5 #169 to P.A. Racing (I)
Hyundai i20 R5 #27 to RallyBaron (FIN)
FIA reject R5 paddleshift gearbox rule change
Last week the FIA cancelled the proposed rule change allowing paddle gear shift systems, which teams have been busy preparing for the 2018 season.
This was decided at the August meeting of the FIA WRC Commission held at Rally Germany.
One of the teams concerned explained that this was all part of the FIA’s fight to keep R5 costs down, believing that costs cannot be maintained if the FIA allow more technology, while at the same time introducing new safety measures.
It is believed that a group of the manufacturers involved in this issue had proposed with the FIA an increase in the costs of the 5%, after finding that actual production costs since the rules were originally drafted had risen in the region of 10% on the total car.
With the recent announcement of the new Citroen C3 R5 and news that Volkswagen Motorsport is on schedule with their R5 rally car to be available in 2018, the issue of costs is becoming increasingly urgent.
Written by Martin Holmes on 07 September 2017.
http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home...ox-rule-change
Well that was clever, leaving it so late after teams had spent time and money developing it.
So what are the other changes to the R5 rules for 2018?
An R5 is still very expensive to run if you compare it to group N
That's natural because they are way faster.
Yeh, I'd compare R5's more to 4WD Group A cars with WRC being the step above that. Although, we need a good cheaper R4 alternative as well.
Also, Lefebvre testing the C3 R5 today https://twitter.com/AS_PipoLopez/sta...19458819395586
I totally agree. I think the R5 class is really good formula for top level of regional rallying (thanks God, because with people in FIA you never know) , but you need some cheaper 4wd car. From point of view of average rally spectator, who isn´t hardcore petrolhead the N4 cars were enough fun to watch and there were plenty of them on every small rally some 7 years ago...For all my nephews, girlfriends, wives (well, there is only one wife till now :D) etc. the R2 and R3 class cars are not spectacular enough. (except veery few drivers) anyway I am not totally convinced about that R4 "oreca way" concept. We will see.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
N4 cars were enough fun to watch??? I think you need really crazy drivers to make N4 cars somewhat interesting..
Are you sure you remember them well? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by liposh
https://youtu.be/rK3uv3WpEQY ...do you see the difference between THAT and new R2 cars? ;)
Citroën Racing @CitroenRacing
Gravel test for the #C3R5 today!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJIbpZ8XkAI8N4z.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJIbpaNXUAAy8_b.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJHsQtHXgAATUdS.jpg:large
When can we expect an R5 from Toyota, I seem to remember it was planned.
That certainly looks and sounds like a step forward compared to the current PSA R5 cars.
Yeah, hard to tell much from one video but it looks a bit more 'normal'Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I didn't notice this hadn't been mentioned, but news that'll be welcomed by some, an article that was originally on Autosport last week but seems to have been moved to Motorsport News:
https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/?p=60102Quote:
Citroen’s all-new C3 R5 will miss its Monte Carlo Rally debut next season because of an FIA regulation U-turn labeled ‘stupid’ by the team’s senior management.
The C3 R5 broke cover and tested in public for the first time near Castres in south-west France last week. The car was tested with a hydraulically operated paddle gearshift – but that Sadev system will never see competition after WRC Commission rejected the change from a manual sequential shift to the paddle.
The FIA pointed out to Motorsport News that the change was made in an attempt to contain costs for the existing R5 drivers, who would need to up-spec their cars to remain competitive. Citroen’s customer racing director Pierre Budar dismissed such talk.
“They decide two weeks ago,” Budar told MN. “Of course it will cost something for the existing cars [to take the paddle], but it’s not compulsory. And it will not bring any performance improvements, it’s for reliability and comfort.
“For us this is a big mess. We need time to redesign the parts. We have to reproduce prototype parts and then test these parts and this will take as much as two months. It’s sure that we cannot homologate the car when we wanted to.
“Before this we had the chance to have the car in Monte Carlo, but now this is not possible.”
Budar estimated the cost of adding a paddle shift to an existing car at around £3000, but the cost to Citroen to redevelop is considerably higher.
“The tooling, everything was done for this paddle,” he said. “Now we have to rework the hydraulic pump, redesign all of the electrics on the centre [transmission] tunnel. Because we have the paddle, we have the handbrake much closer to the steering wheel – now we have to move this to make space for the shift and the cost is big for us.”
The loss of the team’s opportunity for a high-profile launch in Monte Carlo is one of the reasons Citroen team principal Yves Matton is pushing the FIA for a change in its decision-making process.
Citroen team principal Yves Matton said the FIA’s cost argument held no weight.
“It’s quite stupid,” he said. “It’s making the price higher not to have the paddle. It’s a bit more when you buy the car [to have the paddle], but it’s cheaper when you are running the car.”
Positive test
Despite that setback, Matton said the C3’s first test had gone to plan with plenty of kilometres completed so far.
“That’s the important thing, every day the car has been running and doing a lot of kilometres without having to stop for any problem,” he said.
“We will continue testing and we won’t bring the car to market and homologate until it is at the right level to fight with the fastest; this will be somewhere in the first part of 2018 – but it won’t be January.”
Matton is targeting 20 sales in the first year from homologation and 100 in the car’s complete life.
Credit to David Evans, I wish he'd just do more reporting like this.
Quoting myself from June:
I find the way this situation has been handled rather bizarre. I appreciate that rallying operates in a small bubble, but surely these changes should have been argued and officially settled long ago. Bearing in mind the number of new R5 cars in development, I don't get how they can be messing about with the rules behind closed doors with so little being known publicly, let alone officially, at such a late stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
Are we to presume that they're also sticking to the 32mm air restrictor, which was also rumoured to change (increase) so R5 regs stay the same?
André Oliveira posted an article from Martin Holmes about this FIA decision two pages back. Anyway I do agree that it si stupid to change it again when all team had it developped...
Woops, I missed that page! Sorry folks. Well at least the MN article is fleshed out with Budar and Matton's quotes and the news of the delayed launch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I would like to know this too..Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
And do we know if there will be a Peugeot version of the new C3 R5, or perhaps an Opel one?
If there is a restrictor size increase that could make the 208 even more obsolete.
Famin said this year that they want an R5 version from the new 208. That is supposed to debut in 2018, so R5 version might come in 2019?Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
TGardemeister/TGS*@TGardemeister
Well come #178 our new born baby You will beet your sisters soon! #WRC #skoda #R5 #tgsworldwide
Teemu / Rallirinki*@HartusvuoriWRC
Andreas Mikkelsen did a two-day development test for Hyundai i20 R5 in France over the weekend. They used gravel roads.
KalleRovanperaRacing*@KalleRovanpera
Rally Di Roma has come to an end and so is my time with Peugeot!
Italian rally season has taught me alot!
Thanks to @peugeotitalia @Pirelli!
It is quite interesting with the paddle shifts. I have heard in May or June that despite SOME manufacturers were hardly pushing, FIA was talking that they dont want to allow to use paddle shifts on R5 cars...
Was there ever such talk? I lived under an impression that the reason was mainly to differentiate more R5 and R4 cars.
The reason for paddle shifts was mainly forced by manufacturers. FIA is happy with R5 category (despite the price is higher that they wanted).
https://rallysportmag.com/feature-ci...new-c3-r5-car/
Article about the C3 R5 development
"2018 will see the return of the new WRC cars after one year of use and fine-tuning, and the debut of new cars in lower categories, including the new Citroen C3R5 and Hyundai i20R5 and perhaps also the Toyota Yaris R5."
In Rallye Monte-Carlo guide 1
They did forgot 2 very important new R5:Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
POLO
and
FIESTA
I thought Citroen already ruled out Monte?
And we have seen nothing of the Polo, Yaris or new Fiesta yet. I presume they are already all testing but one would expect to have seen something by this stage.
The closest I've seen to a release date for the new Fiesta is a quote from Motorsport News from Paul Bird, British (formerly World) Superbike team boss and long time M Sport privateer WRC customer, on returning from a two year drug ban earlier this year. He said: “I’ll have an R5, but I’m going to wait for the new shape to come out at the end of 2018. I’ll use the Focus [WRC '07] until then. I can always hire a car.”Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
https://www.motorsport-news.co.uk/?p=57928
BILLIOT Jérémie*@planetemarcus
#WRC New Tarmac test in France for Citroën Racing debuts today with @SLefebvreRallye and new C3R5 → http://bit.ly/2y3JYyA
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKkiuExW4AIUhm8.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKkiuEzWAAAy9T6.jpg
nice livery from Galatariotis fabia r5 at Cyprus
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKkqqCfWsAAyOFg.jpg
C3 R5 tarmac test video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgxPU5WHqK0
It seems like they were using similar front suspension solution as the tarmac spec C3 WRC.