WRC future

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Originally Posted by Franky

It keeps getting better and better. Pub really is the sane place to be :D

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Originally Posted by Mirek

If only there was any opened :(

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I'd be here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd9nRll4c_A
if it was open.

Paddon tells about their Hyundai Kona EV rally car:

- Battery can be changed in 5 mins
- Battery can be charged in 10-40 mins
- Car is faster already than R5 and AP4
- Risk of fire is smaller than in combustion engine cars
- There will be a sound

https://moottori.fi/ajoneuvot/jutut/...alin-ratkaisu/

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

- Battery can be charged in 10-40 mins

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Useless information without knowing the battery capacity. Anyway fast charging can't charge more than 80% of the battery capacity of the existing battery designs, i.e. in that case full battery capacity can't be used (or the charging takes a lot more time).

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

- Risk of fire is smaller than in combustion engine cars

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Sorry but that is technicaly nonsense. The first problem is that nobody has any hard data for EV used in rallying, therefore nobody can compare the probability.

The second thing with battery fires is that they carry their own oxygen and therefore don't need air to burn, hence why it is impossible to extinguish the fire before it burns all. In other words if the car catches fire in a forest it will burn for an hour or so not for five minutes as with the combustion-engine powered car and the fire brigade can basically only localize the scene and wait - that is extremely hazardeous in windy and dry conditions and you need tons and tons of water for that.

The third and not smaller problem is that the fire is very very difficult to anticipate because the fire can start basically anytime after a battery-damaging incident over a very long period of time. The first issue here is that it's often impossible to recognize what is "battery-damaging" incident. It can be a hit on the vehicle floor which causes no visible structural damage. That is something which happens pretty often in rallying. How to prevent that? Will the batteries go to a quarantine after every service stop and stay there for couple of weeks? IMHO that is hardly possible.

There are also numerous incidents known where the batteries started fire repeatedly again and again, especially if they were well-charged in time of the incident.


He also completely omits the hazards connected with the high voltage and accessability of the vehicle for untrained personel in case of incidents on rally roads (fans, common stage marshals etc.). These people will reach the vehicles before any specialist can reach the spot because it's not a circuit closed from public.


The risks may be "low" but first someone needs to hard define what "low" means. The probability of a spectator being involved in an accident is also low, yet we do everything we can to prevent it.

Hayden seems to be replying to questions on twitter so maybe worth asking there instead of here

10 minutes was quick charging, 40 minutes normal charging.

On fire issue:

https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/sta...47998424846336

https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/sta...47571759271937

https://twitter.com/HaydenPaddon/sta...42870103871491

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Useless information without knowing the battery capacity. Anyway fast charging can't charge more than 80% of the battery capacity of the existing battery designs, i.e. in that case full battery capacity can't be used (or the charging takes a lot more time).



Sorry but that is technicaly nonsense. The first problem is that nobody has any hard data for EV used in rallying, therefore nobody can compare the probability.

The second thing with battery fires is that they carry their own oxygen and therefore don't need air to burn, hence why it is impossible to extinguish the fire before it burns all. In other words if the car catches fire in a forest it will burn for an hour or so not for five minutes as with the combustion-engine powered car and the fire brigade can basically only localize the scene and wait - that is extremely hazardeous in windy and dry conditions and you need tons and tons of water for that.

The third and not smaller problem is that the fire is very very difficult to anticipate because the fire can start basically anytime after a battery-damaging incident over a very long period of time. The first issue here is that it's often impossible to recognize what is "battery-damaging" incident. It can be a hit on the vehicle floor which causes no visible structural damage. That is something which happens pretty often in rallying. How to prevent that? Will the batteries go to a quarantine after every service stop and stay there for couple of weeks? IMHO that is hardly possible.

There are also numerous incidents known where the batteries started fire repeatedly again and again, especially if they were well-charged in time of the incident.


He also completely omits the hazards connected with the high voltage and accessability of the vehicle for untrained personel in case of incidents on rally roads (fans, common stage marshals etc.). These people will reach the vehicles before any specialist can reach the spot because it's not a circuit closed from public.


The risks may be "low" but first someone needs to hard define what "low" means. The probability of a spectator being involved in an accident is also low, yet we do everything we can to prevent it.

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i really can't understand how you know this better than who built the car!

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Originally Posted by wyler

i really can't understand how you know this better than who built the car!

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Mirek is an engineer with experience in the automotive industry, I'm sure that if he takes time to write something down, it's because he knows about it. ;)

Mirek is fully right.
I did some ERX past year and there are plenty of small things I didn't imagine before.

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Originally Posted by tommeke_B

Mirek is an engineer with experience in the automotive industry, I'm sure that if he takes time to write something down, it's because he knows about it. ;)

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not questioning mirek's knowledge on his own work. other thing is speculating on others without knowing the technicalities used.
i think that if someone actually built a car in this specs, and used, surely he came across this kind of problem and found a viable solution.
i find it hard to think they build it and claim things without any consciousness to the point of being "technical nonsense".
btw, as written below the comment, some of the question were already answered by paddon in other media...
the dismissing tone of mirek post just startled me!

Regarding the Kona. We have to keep in mind that Paddon is wearing the same suit as Wilson now. And we all know what's Wilson's public stance on his car's potential.

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Originally Posted by wyler

not questioning mirek's knowledge on his own work. other thing is speculating on others without knowing the technicalities used.
i think that if someone actually built a car in this specs, and used, surely he came across this kind of problem and found a viable solution.
i find it hard to think they build it and claim things without any consciousness to the point of being "technical nonsense".
btw, as written below the comment, some of the question were already answered by paddon in other media...
the dismissing tone of mirek post just startled me!

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I have named only issues for which there is no known solution at the moment.

I stated that the claim of lower fire probability than with CE cars is nonsense because it is. There are simply no statistical data existing to support such claim and a probability is a statistical function. That is a fact.