Hyundai WRT

What car does suit Mikkelsen? An ultra dominant VW with no competition? And still, Mikkelsen only won 3 events with that car after multiple years (one on pace alone).

He couldn't drive the C3 on gravel, but was happy with it on tarmac and finished 2nd (while it was the best tarmac car). Meeke led Corsica and won Spain that year proving the car was capable on that surface back then.

At Hyundai, Neuville has fought for 3 championships in a row with the car. He has shown he is on the same sort of level as Ogier and Tanak in terms of speed across all surfaces. The only question mark left for Neuville is if he can get over the line - that's all that's been missing and it's really fine margins. As mentioned above, combine championship pts for the last 3yrs and you can see Neuville is there or thereabouts in the top 3 undoubtedly. Mikkelsen isn't in that class atm.

And if he needs an ultra perfect car or great road position to fight with the front runners on events, that proves he isn't in on the same level as the top 3. Give some drivers a tractor or a dog of a car, and they can still wring the best out of it. That's something I don't believe Mikkelsen has shown he can do yet considering Neuville's performances vs Mikkelsen at Hyundai.

FWIW, I still think Mikkelsen deserves a place in the WRC and wish Msport would've taken him, but that's Tommi, Malcolm and Adamo who seem to see differently about Mikkelsen.

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Originally Posted by er88

What car does suit Mikkelsen? An ultra dominant VW with no competition? And still, Mikkelsen only won 3 events with that car after multiple years (one on pace alone).

He couldn't drive the C3 on gravel, but was happy with it on tarmac and finished 2nd (while it was the best tarmac car). Meeke led Corsica and won Spain that year proving the was capable on that surface back then.

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VW worked much better for him than for Latvala in 2016, at a time where he spend just about all gravel rallies as 2nd on the road for 2 days, which certainly did affect the results. Fabia in any version (S2000/R5) worked well. For C3 on gravel he scored the first ever PS points in it (Meeke never got it to PS finish in one piece) and outpaced Meeke in the mentioned Germany tarmac outing and scored first ever tarmac podium for it. So in the end it's more like the only car that has not worked for multiple rounds is i20.

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And if he needs an ultra perfect car or great road position to fight with the front runners on events, that proves he isn't in on the same level as the top 3. Give some drivers a tractor or a dog of a car, and they can still wring the best out of it. That's something I don't believe Mikkelsen has shown he can do yet considering Neuville's performances vs Mikkelsen at Hyundai.

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Imo the only one who has really shown to get results with imperfect car is mr. Ogier in 2017 at MSport and in 2019 with C3. Mikkelsen has not shown he can consistently drive with I20 yes. Even Neuville has real issues with the car at times (Sardinia this year and Finland any of last 5 years). Sordo just doesn't start the rounds where he struggles since 2017.

That said Neuville (and Sordo) has been developing and driving a Hyundai since they started in WRC and Loebs performance drop in C3 in 2018 vs i20 in 2019 is as big or bigger as Mikkelsen's. So will be interesting to see Tanak. Though since Nandan got fired there seems to be genuine will at Hyundai to make the car suit the drivers better, just didn't work for Loeb and Mikkelsen on tarmac yet.

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FWIW, I still think Mikkelsen deserves a place in the WRC and wish Msport would've taken him, but that's Tommi, Malcolm and Adamo who seem to see differently about Mikkelsen.

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There are rather special circumstances in each case:

Adamo - off course he prefers world champions 1 and 2 for fulltime seats, and likes the 3rd car rotation due to road position. It is also little likely Loeb will get dropped completely even if he keeps underperforming, simply because of the PR value.
Tommi - again 7 times WDC is a no question pick, so is Rovanpera with the hype and Jouhki relations. According to rumors Evans was picked by Ogier, likely cause he is used to supporting Ogier from MSport and never proved a real threat to him while Mikkelsen stole lot of points from Ogier in 2019 and also beat him a few times in VW
Malcolm - is all about money/business. Lappi was interested in paying, Mikkelsen wasn't (which I think is a mistake).

I'm very interested about the situation in Hyundai. Right now Neuville thinks he is the fastest driver in WRC and the title has not been achieved, because the car is not fast enough. Right now this can go two different ways.
1. Neuville is the fastest driver and Tänak won't have the speed to compete with him. Or the car doesn't suit him, like it has happened with some other drivers.
2. Tänak will be equal or faster than Neuville and with consistent driving, he will have better overall results. This might push Neuville to drive over his limits and crashes are going to happen. Also it will be interesting to see, if the car is bad in Finland or not :).

Anyway the dynamics in the Hyundai team will be interesting to watch. As an estonian I hope for the second solution :D

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Originally Posted by trykmann

I'm very interested about the situation in Hyundai. Right now Neuville thinks he is the fastest driver in WRC and the title has not been achieved, because the car is not fast enough. Right now this can go two different ways.
1. Neuville is the fastest driver and Tänak won't have the speed to compete with him. Or the car doesn't suit him, like it has happened with some other drivers.
2. Tänak will be equal or faster than Neuville and with consistent driving, he will have better overall results. This might push Neuville to drive over his limits and crashes are going to happen. Also it will be interesting to see, if the car is bad in Finland or not :).

Anyway the dynamics in the Hyundai team will be interesting to watch. As an estonian I hope for the second solution :D

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Should be fun to watch....
My question is, do the small mistakes from Neuville come from having to push a lesser car too hard to keep up, or from Neuville himself?
Tanak made almost no errors last season, but he mostly had the fastest car, so it’s easier to drive within yourself.
I think both of them will be praying Ogier doesn’t have a totally reliable Toyota...

mikkelsen is one of those examples of how you can only buy your way up to a certain level. latvala, ostberg, greensmith, ... are all the same.

with a little talent you can pay for a drive and get so much experience that people start to believe you are very talented. but every now and then someone really talented comes along and suddenly it shows you are only a B-class driver.

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Originally Posted by trykmann

I'm very interested about the situation in Hyundai. Right now Neuville thinks he is the fastest driver in WRC and the title has not been achieved, because the car is not fast enough. Right now this can go two different ways.
1. Neuville is the fastest driver and Tänak won't have the speed to compete with him. Or the car doesn't suit him, like it has happened with some other drivers.
2. Tänak will be equal or faster than Neuville and with consistent driving, he will have better overall results. This might push Neuville to drive over his limits and crashes are going to happen. Also it will be interesting to see, if the car is bad in Finland or not :).

Anyway the dynamics in the Hyundai team will be interesting to watch. As an estonian I hope for the second solution :D

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it will indeed be very interesting. we will for the first time in many years actually be able to tell how much of the performance comes from the car, and how much from the driver.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

latvala, ostberg, greensmith, ... are all the same.

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You forgot Serderidis.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

You forgot Serderidis.

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nobody ever thought he had any talent, not even himself. :p

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Originally Posted by doubled1978

Should be fun to watch....
My question is, do the small mistakes from Neuville come from having to push a lesser car too hard to keep up, or from Neuville himself?
Tanak made almost no errors last season, but he mostly had the fastest car, so it’s easier to drive within yourself.
I think both of them will be praying Ogier doesn’t have a totally reliable Toyota...

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Hold on here mate... Where's this "fastest car" thing comes from?? If you look at Toyota drivers in general you seriously cannot make that conclusion and starting from midseason Hyundai was clearly the best package overall.
Only Tänak was fast in a Toyota! Few years back VW was clearly the best car, but Toyota hasn't dominated like this so this "fastest car" claim is based on fiction.

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Originally Posted by denkimi

mikkelsen is one of those examples of how you can only buy your way up to a certain level. latvala, ostberg, greensmith, ... are all the same.

with a little talent you can pay for a drive and get so much experience that people start to believe you are very talented. but every now and then someone really talented comes along and suddenly it shows you are only a B-class driver.

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This is something I just can't stand, the sort of black and white vision where only Tänak, Neuville and Ogier are "really talented" and others are "B-class drivers".

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Originally Posted by denkimi

mikkelsen is one of those examples of how you can only buy your way up to a certain level. latvala, ostberg, greensmith, ... are all the same.

with a little talent you can pay for a drive and get so much experience that people start to believe you are very talented. but every now and then someone really talented comes along and suddenly it shows you are only a B-class driver.

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Well, he hasn't have own money to pay for a drive since 2009, and a manager that never paid for a drive, so i really don't get where he has paid his way up from?



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