Quite possibly but Greensmith has a long history there and pumped a lot of cash into M-Sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
The split seems very amicable so we'll have to wait and see the full reasons.
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Quite possibly but Greensmith has a long history there and pumped a lot of cash into M-Sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
The split seems very amicable so we'll have to wait and see the full reasons.
Not only Fourmeaux, but also Munster has entered at Jänner Rallye in Austria, 05.01.-07.01.2023Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth
Mikkelsen says to parcferme.no that he is not in any discussions with
M-Sport regarding Puma in MC or Sweden.
He is still working on getting some sort of program together for 2023, but has no firm plan as of now, he says.
Too bad, would have liked to see him in a Puma!
Especially bad news for the championship in terms of average number of Rally1 cars per event.
People are complaining about only 10 Rally1 cars in Monte-Carlo (including Serderidis) but, with the current rumors, we could have a lot of rallies (4?) with only 8. And a global average of only 9.
At the moment,
Toyota has 3.5 cars in average for the season
Hyundai 3
M-Sport has only 2 official drivers
Serderidis will make 4
And we can expect Bertelli to do 2 as usual.
Well, meaning an average of 9 cars per event (including 0.5 «*very*» gentleman driver with Bertelli and Serderidis). The lowest number for the main category for a long time.
Let’s expect one driver or 2 could rent a half-season with M-Sport and/or Toyota but I hardly see who considering all the programs already set.
Serderidis announced he Will be the 3rd driver for MSport with his Puma in Monte Carlo, Mexico, Sardegna and Safari Rally.
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For sure Mikkelsen would be much better than Loubet, Greensmith and Serderidis!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Serderidis beings funding which is not the case with Mikkelsen. With Gus I think everything changed when TGR released one car for rent for a half of the rallies. I think they believe to show more pace in Yaris which IMHO doesn't bring him any factory seat so pointless to try unless they are there to get different experience for their money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk
Greensmith is not a part of M-Sport's roster next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
From M-Sport's perspective: Mikkelsen doesn't bring them a world title. And doesn't bring money. The two other drivers will bring money. So in that sense those guys are better for M-Sport.
Well, certainly he will get manu points, the way pointscoring system is constructed.Quote:
Originally Posted by mousti
They don't have to nominate three drivers. I think we saw this case in Acropolis 2021 when Serderidis was the third Fiesta WRC but not running for manu points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Of course they will if they only bring three cars, Serderidis included.Why compare to Acropolis 2021, anyway? Now is 2023 season coming...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Well, we'll find out soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
They didn’t do it with Bertelli in New Zealand this year, even if there were no more target for them.
And globally, as far as I remember, they never do so with a pure «*gentlemen driver*» client whereas they could have done it multiple times (I don’t account Bouffier in 2018 or Greensmith in 2019 as Bouffier had some references in MC and Greensmith won one time his class in RC2 and was viewed with some potential by the team).
I can quote Jocius (1st rally of the year) or Gross both in 2020 as the most recent examples with Bertelli.
As they clearly say, they target only Driver title and with no real 3rd driver coming later apparently, at first glance, I would see them not changing it.
However, one point may be changing their strategy and make them asking a bit of help to Serderidis: the new rule about the PET testing days; if I remember correctly, it will be 21 days for 3-car team and 14 for 2-car team but with a real freedom on how to use it. As teams are not making specific PET for Monte Carlo and as Serderidis won’t make a lot of European rounds, maybe they could register Serderidis as a manufacturer driver in Monte Carlo to gain one more testing day for Tanak later in the season? All the more than with only 2 «*big*» cars, M-Sport won’t have that much days to focus on their lead driver (even if we can assume Loubet will be largely sacrificed for Tanak). But I don’t know enough how the rule works (especially about how to define how many days you’ve between 14 and 21 if you’ve a part-time 3rd car) to say if this trick is valuable or not, it’s more of a question to people here knowing the rule more precisely.
At least, it’s much more consistent than Citroen 2019 strategy; they were saying with target all the titles but with only 2 cars which was almost impossible considering how close where the cars (with Citroen a bit behind the others) and the level of the lead drivers; here, M-Sport is in the same situation but they clearly say «*WDC title is the only target*» and they took a backed driver as 2nd driver (only thing is that they will have sometimes a 3rd driver as a pure client).
Sounds reasonable to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
Sorry but this is irrelevant. If you are registered as a manufacturer, you get 21 testing days, simple as that. The 7*driver rule applies to teams like Hyundai 2C or TGR NG. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
But I agree with your other points. M-Sport is not going for a manufacturer title, and that's why then enter just two cars in a rally minimum, or five cars if there's enough paying customers. They don't need to "share" cars to get complete seasons or think about starting order etc.
You probably know better than me but it’s not why I understood from this Dirtfish article (but I haven’t checked more than this)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/why-a...e-in-december/
Quote:
In terms of event preparation, for 2022 the equation was simple: one day per driver per European round of the championship. For a three-car team this season, that meant 30 days.
For a three-car team in 2023, it’s a flat rate of 21 days. If you’re a two-car team, it’s 14 days.
And the teams can use those days wherever and with whoever they like.
If, for example, Toyota wanted to give its world champion Kalle Rovanperä the best possible prep for the mountains, they could slot the Finn into a 10-day test taking in the best and the worst of the weather and the most capricious of the conditions.
But that would leave them with only 11 days for Rovanperä, Elfyn Evans and the shared car of Sébastien Ogier and Takamoto Katsuta for the remaining 12 rounds.
Well, Dirtfish has misunderstood it. The rules speak clearly of manufacturers and teams separately and it's clear what they mean.
Here's what it says about testng.Quote:
PARTICIPATION – MANUFACTURER
A Manufacturer:
5.2.1 Undertakes to take part in all the rallies of the Championship with a minimum of two (2) World Rally Cars complying with the 2023 Appendix J, Article 262.
5.3 PARTICIPATION – WRC TEAM
A WRC Team;
5.3.1 Undertakes to take part in a minimum of 7 nominated rallies including one outside Europe with up to two World Rally Cars of the homologation number 400/01 WRC or Ra1-22/XX.
5.3.2 Will be eligible to score points only when there is a team scoring points in the WRC Manufacturer Championship with the same car homologation.
5.3.5 Cannot nominate a driver who has been nominated to score points in the corresponding Manufacturer Team in the same season.
Quote:
68.4.2 In the case of a Manufacturer, a maximum of 21 days. In the case of a WRC Team, a maximum of 7 days plus an additional 1 day per entered driver for any second nominated driver, up to a maximum of 7 days per driver and a maximum of 14 days per team. This clause does not apply to testing as stated in Art. 68.1.1.
Thank you for the information.
Interesting that it is 21 days for all manufacturers whatever the number of cars; with only 2 cars, it means M-Sport would have quite an advantage to give test days for Tanak against the other leaders (Rovanpera, Neuville); even if we can imagine Toyota and Hyundai will sacrifice a bit the 3rd driver
Other question: how does it work for privateer entered by a manufacturer but not registered as a manufacturer driver? (It was the case for Bertelli and Serderidis this year if I remind well). Because if their PET days don’t account in the 21 days, clearly, it gives even less interest to put Serderidis as manufacturer driver.
M-Sport is confident it can keep up with its factory World Rally Championship rivals Toyota and Hyundai in the development race to provide Ott Tanak an opportunity to challenge.
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/m...nak-/10414608/
Well, a two-car team doesn't really fight for the manufacturers title. As for drivers title, a three-car team could also just give all their test days to the lead driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
Serderidis and other privateers are most likely outside test day limits as long as they don't drive for manufacturer points. And we saw this in Acropolis 2021: Serderidis drove the third Fiesta WRC but not for manufacturer points. I assume the same would happen this year.
Yep, I’m on the same line; with cars quite close and considering the level of the drivers today, it’s almost impossible to target the Manufacturer title with 2 «*true*» drivers. Serderidis or Bertelli half-time would change nothing to that, it was more a question about how test days works for privateers.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
In 2019, Citroen said they will target it in addition to WDC (or at least that it was possible) but it was impossible.
M-Sport is quite honest on that point and on their situation, it’s logical. All on Tanak, a backed driver in the 2nd one and whatever client pays in the 3rd one but not as a manufacturer entry. And even for Loubet, I think he is here because they won’t be credible without a 2nd reasonable car and because they are forced to have a 2nd car everywhere by the regulation; else, they may even have not taken him if they could have.
Loubet also has some budget as far as I know, so he covers part of the cost and has some future potential so is a good fit for the 2nd nominated car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
The impact of the cost of Tanak on M-Sport's ability to run multiple entries cant be ignored. It's not just all-in with Tanak on the sporting level, but also the financial one.
Everyone is glad they brought him into the team for the sake of the 2023 WRC, so need to cut them some slack in terms of the others they are able to employ.
During this quiet time M-sport posted something to watch
Roadbook of Loeb having fun at the Milton keys event https://youtu.be/ATyNvIYP6jM
Looks like an ASOS model.
A very basic suit... no extra sponsors.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
It's from testingQuote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk
Same suit they gave to Fourmaux and Breen in testing/promotional material before 2022.
I hope they washed it inbetween! :PQuote:
Originally Posted by macebig
As said here, only a testsuit. Team has still not presented team and sponsors for 23 yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Test suit was plain Sparco...
https://static.wixstatic.com/media/8...f90650~mv2.jpg
Haven't you considered there's more than one suit available? And they haven't only tested once?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk
Looks like no expense was spent on photoshopping Ott's head onto a stock picture..Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
He has only tested once by all accounts and said he preferred to rest with his family before the new season starts.Quote:
Originally Posted by cali
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/tanak...uma-this-year/
Photoshop? Like I said there's many options that we do not know or are unaware of. It's too early to jump to any conclusions and in a few weeks time we will definitely find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Also don't believe everything they are putting out to the media, especially Tänak has been many times misleading the media, playing his own game.
Patience my friend.
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if this is leading to a black livery as one from history, i'll be pretty happy!
This would look cool...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...woOgw&usqp=CAU
Ready for tomorrow
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...28a8cc88b7.jpg
As I understand Loubet will be first and Tänak later
Pic Source https://twitter.com/planetemarcus/st...XiEfvimqi6kDFw
Looks nice in the testing "livery"Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC