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“They have been doing some clever things and, as I said, the pace is strong there. So for sure there are things we can improve and there are things we can have better and stronger so we will definitely work on it,” he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Dirtfish already starting to milk the probably 1 interview Tänak gave them, and splitting Tänaks words into tens of articles, in this article the point is basically the same as in the first article they released, just different wording and quote from TänakQuote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
And then Estonian media will milk their articles, doubling them. Like after initial announcement, where Dirtfish managed to crank up 3 articles and Postimees generated 6 out of them. That's peak journalism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyest
totally indifferent. same reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
just, let's not be so naive to pretend that our loved sport is a better reason to "corporate budget logic" than any other. it's the same.
But does he even mean Ford or the Promoter, sorry, Red Bull?Quote:
Originally Posted by J4MIE
Gerard Quinn
@WRCgerardquinn
Dec 8
Replying to @FakeHinkelstein @NumbErer90
You are talking about an energy drink partner here, right? 😂
You know that friend who disappears from the bar when it's their round having already stuffed themselves at the buffet.......
https://nitter.net/WRCgerardquinn/st...84071592116225
It's all a big tax write-off. The money the manufacturers use to fund their rally teams comes from their PR/marketing/advertising/R&D budgets. If they didn't spend it in the WRC, they'd do so elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
That's what makes VW's withdrawal in 2016 hard to take - every cent they would have used in the WRC in 2017 and beyond will still have been spent on other marketing activities, they just couldn't be seen to be playing with IC-engined rally cars.
didnt undertand guys.Cansomebody clarify?Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
yeah. but the meaning is the same. if they cut employees for marketing, it sucks, even if "the marketing" is rally racing. i'm just saying to be aware of it, and not pretend rallying to be a purely romantic sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
anyway, we can do nothing about it, so at least, we enjoy the race.
my guess is:Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
ford in for tanak wage (at least partly)
red bull out
e: let's hope not, that would mean no loeb & no fourmeaux either.
Ah, but my point was the opposite. They aren't cutting staff numbers to raise money for marketing. There isn't really any correlation at all, at least not financially. Maybe morally.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
Like VW in 2016, as they were laying staff off in the wake of the emissions cheating scandal (more than 20,000 if I remember right), they were still spending money on marketing - probably more than ever as they tried to repair their image. They just couldn't be seen to be having fun using fossil fuel-consuming cars 'rallying the world' with that money.
here's exactly where is naive.Quote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
in a business company, everything is correlated. They just sit in a board and decide if investing in marketing is worth or not for the business even at the cost of losing some employees.
vw did just as well, they lose lots of money after the scandal, but for them pr to clean up was definitely valuable, so they kept pr and cut workers to counter the loss.
btw: we started this thread on a tweet stating just this: more ford investment in rally is coming at the cost of some cut in other areas. (although not proved).
I don’t really understand this guy anymore.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...33084ade08.jpg
at least now is very clear what was the past role of ford in m-sport, and what is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
He's having a problem with Tänak's salary. Understood, but until someone is willing to pay then it's game on.
Seems like Tänak/Märtin is a hard combination to bargain with.
Sent from my DN2103 using Tapatalk
I imagine he's confirming that Red Bull really weren't putting in much money to the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Regarding the morality of the Ford funding increase. As I think I've said before, without the likes of a Tanak, much of the money Ford were giving M-Sport (we've lately been led to believe even prior to this it wasn't as small an amount as we imagined or was previously the case) was essentially being wasted if they weren't going to invest in the most important part of the package, having a Driver who can actually win. I don't think Tanak is getting anywhere near £20m, but it'd be interesting to know what ratio of the Ford to M-Sport budget he is getting personally. It seems that Ford woke up to the idea that they either had to pay for a Tanak or largely forget/cut the WRC program budget. Thankfully for us and the WRC, they chose the former option.
I highly doubt it'll make any difference whatsoever to the scope of restructuring/redundancies being carried out more widely across Ford, it's a drop in the ocean by comparison. A few less Ford adverts shown during NFL games a season on US TV or a small redistribution of funds from the NASCAR program would probably pay for it.
Hopefully it works out better and lasts longer than the 2019 Citroën throw of the dice with Ogier...
Yes; I think it was more a case of Red Bull athletes driving the M-Sport cars, with minimal funding. I suspect it covered the Breen car, as he isn't part of RB; Loeb, Fourmaux are both RB athletes; I'd love to know what Fourmaux did to get RB backing - he's got to be the most anonymous/ unsuccessful RB athlete out there....Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
I guess they still put more into Nascar and Aussie Supercars than WRC.
Speaking about Red Bull, Erik Cais became Red Bull athlete
2-5m a year for Tanak is peanuts for Ford regardless of what job losses have occurred in other areas of their company. They invested more than Msport fans like to believe in this car, it was a fully fledged partnership. 5m a year is worth it for a driver who will win rallies and a possible championship. Last year was a disaster after Monte, where that rally generated unreal publicity for them.
Tanak would've stayed at home if the money wasn't right, on top of the commitment of future development. Many on here said last season, why have Ford poured money into the Puma only for Msport to act like a tinpot team with mostly pay drivers?! They needed a top tier driver, now they've put up the money to get one.
Motorsport is motorsport/marketing. Hyundai used to chuck 15m a year at Chelsea football club just to have a tiny miniscule logo on one of their shirts sleeves.
I feel sorry for anyone losing their jobs, including those at Ford. But the reality is companies restructure. And motorsport and marketing is treated as an entirely different entity anyway. Marketing might even ramp up when a company wants a much needed boost
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
I think the entire VW scandal was more geopolitical than anything else. That fine didn't really exist and the idea that companies employ excess staff to be nice but can fire at any moment 'to pay for something else' is ridiculous. My belief is these staff weren't needed anymore and VW were done with WRC and the reasoning was whatever could be used at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
Back on topic, and I don't know Gerard closely enough to know his thesis, but seems he is at odds with the WRC having manufacturer benefactors and an energy drink benefitting. Agree, we often cover this here, but this is where we are.
Looks like Loeb is still very much on the cards for 2023.
https://twitter.com/MSportLtd/status...IxJR1M5yMJr3-g
well, it's just the redbull closing party for the '22 season in their garden... '23 is still to come, let's hope with no big change.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
Seems to me that Tanak's sudden availability has been the catalyst to getting Ford to finally pay up for the top driver M-Sport needed. Plus his salary may also be lower than if they were poaching him from another team.
Missing out on him would've wasted the all the money they'd already paid out in making the Puma Rally1 Hybrid happen.
Looking at Solberg «*interview*» in Motorsport.com + Millener’s comments, I have the feeling it will be Loeb or Solberg in part-time 4th car (and maybe even a bit of 3rd if Loubet has not a full-time program).
Millener is wondering about sponsorship conflicts but does not discard it completly. I have the feeling they are pushing Red Bull for Loeb (and will not take Solberg in that case) but not sure Red Bull will invest again this season:
- 2022 results were bad
- Tanak’s deal is clearly not a Red Bull one, else communication would have been clear about that
- Loubet and Greensmith are not Red Bull drivers (no external sign of it) and I don’t think their results are enough to convince RB
- Very low probability that they help again Fourmaux (who misses out 3 of the 4 last rallies), and they began to help other youngsters such as Cais.
So is some drives with Loeb interesting enough for Red Bull to put some money for M-Sport? Not sure at all with a young Red Bull driver (Rovanpera) being the big fish.
And if Red Bull is not there, I would see M-Sport, Monster and Solberg finalizing for Solberg a deal equivalent to Loubet 2022 program (half-program).
Wouldn’t be surprised to see Solberg in his Polo in Sweden and then announcing a deal with M-Sport.
It might all have something to do with the Dakar project that M-Sport are working on with Ford, Some extra Finance to get some top drivers ready, Fourmaux has already been testing it, and Tanak no doubt will test at some point, then you throw Loeb into that mix !!.
some hints from news these days:Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny0405
- fourmaux unofficially confirmed in wrc2 (but before tanak, might change, especially if redbull leaves)
- loubet racing in devouly with gilsoul in a fiesta rally2
- cais announced wrc2 + erc campain with skoda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Woq8ltYUHbU a lot of M-Sporters in this video ;)
About Ford Rally2 program: they already have Virves (and we can think that with Tanak there, he will have more than the 4 prize drives) and the last news from Belgium are saying Serderidis has cut half of his next year program to fund Grégoire Munster in 2023; and Munster has 2 possibilities, either Hyundai (his father is a contender to take the program left by RedGrey) or Ford, with a decision to be taken soon as he wants to do the Monte Carlo.Quote:
Originally Posted by wyler
So I wouldn’t be 100% sure about Fourmaux in Rally2. Let’s see, probably some news soon.
Is there possibility that we will see Munster in Serderidis' Puma for some tests or even one race?
That was the theory I threw up a few weeks back Paul, I think you’re spot on. Dakar fits exactly with Tanak wanting a new challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hudson
He prob has zero interests in DAKAR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brynmor Pierce
Fourmaux will be in Janner Rallye with ZM Racing Team Ford Fiesta Rally2.
Sounds like all in for Tanak and the rest get whatever is left. https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/l...boss/10410564/
Let's be honest, there's no way M-Sport can compete with the other two big teams for the manufacturers title.
Their other 2023 drivers will effectively only be there for their own benefit.
Loubet - Gilsoul confirmed.
https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/gilso...WOHRubFaL7gAg0
confirmed ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Managarium
by dirtfish!
could be true but dfish is far from official source.
What about read the article? There is like interview with Loubet where he is saying that he will start with Gilsoul next year, even it's not signed yet.
There will be 6 brands in WRC before people will learn how to work with media.
Indeed, seems Loeb was payed last year to show the potential of the car, I guess it worked, now that they have Tanak they will focus all they have on him: "At the moment we have to put all our resources into Ott and that is where we have got to be realistic."Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
And about the others:
“It would be great to have Pierre-Louis back in the team. He is not stopping his rallying at the moment but there is no official news yet as to what programme he will have next year." - translation: He doesn't yet know how much money he gets to spend.
About Gus Greensmith they will discuss “to understand what we can do with him for the season” - refers to him exactly as someone refers to a client, if there was any gram of doubt left in anyone's mind about that relationship.
It seems Fourmaux gets the young Tanak/Evans treatment and gets demoted to WRC2, probably a good choice.
To summarise it's Tanak + whoever pays, even Loeb gets less importance because they have a fast lead driver. Remember they only need to enter 2 cars on each rally. Between Loubet, Greensmith, Serderidis and Bertelli i'm sure they can get enough people to pay for at least one car on each rally. For me the question of other drivers is less important and could also be dynamic as people find or lose budget as the year goes one. It's clear only one MSPort car really matters.
True but they have been spot on so far this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by pantealex
Better that than arguably being the case for all their drivers for the last couple of years, other than Loeb, who was very much a part timer...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
They have zero issue supporting 4 cars for Monte if needed. Only point is how many PETs they can split between Loeb and Tanak plus whatever share Greensmith and Loubet get.
If you are a paydriver, to choose Montecarlo is very risky, because that rally is more like a lottery, than sport; you really need experience - misjudge 1 corner and all is f...d big time. Common sense says that we would see more pay-drivers in Rally1 cars from Swe onwards.