Last year he started at his home rally with a Fabia R5 from BRR (his only rally last year), but I don´t expect him to come back on a regular basis because of financial reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
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Last year he started at his home rally with a Fabia R5 from BRR (his only rally last year), but I don´t expect him to come back on a regular basis because of financial reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
R5 regs to 2018 will be exciting
Fabia Evo1?
The other R5s have now all had an evolution, and Fiesta will soon have an Evo2 on the market.
Any plans for an Evo1 for the Fabia, or will Skoda wait until they see the Evo2 from Ford, and see if they are passed ?
Really? When will they be published?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
Presumably will be designed to narrow the gap to the new WRCars a little.
Evo1 will be arround MayQuote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
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This talks about Evo, Evo 1 or Evo 2 are stupid. It is only marketing issue, all these things works as jokers, VO, VK...
Yes, i think that will allow current R5 to decrease gap to WRC
I disagree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
If people do not have an upgrade/Evo installed, and does better in an old Fiesta than a driver with evo2 installed, it says something about the driver. Nice to know for us who follows the rallies and compare results.
A good thing also for your database I would think.
You cannot find what is installed in the car. Like I told, nothing like evo kit doesnt exist. There are only some parts, which are adjusted. But it is not necessary to put all the parts immediatelly there. Any mentioning of "evo" in any results or database means nothing, it is nonsense...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Is it over for Abbring at Hyundai then in terms of a competition programme? And are Hyundai not going to place someone in either WRC2 or ERC to promote their R5?
Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't joker/evo parts fitted as a package? Probably that's why some PSA R5's owners didn't install engine improvements from last year evo kit; they would be forced to also use the faulty power steering that came along.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
There are some parts as package in one joker, but others not. Thats why it is nonsense to talk about "evo" versions. It was nonsense with S2000 and it is nonsense with R5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Wasn't it mandatory to fit the evo parts in S2000? I remember problems for Vanneste when he wanted to start in Ypres without the evo bumpers.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Ok, but cars with upgrades are faster or not?? If yes (it is logical...), than it is good to know who has the latest improvement and who not...at least there, where is an intensive fight for positions between R5 cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Otherwise-if just one R5 is at the finish line, than it has no sense.....
Some modifications are mandatory some not. It's stated in the homologation regulations for which the new parts replace the old ones (usually after one year I think) and for which both options are allowed in the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by dupanton
You don't seem to understand so I will repeat what PLuto wrote in other words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
Nobody knows what is installed in which car except the teams themselves. Therefore no result system can ever show accurately the evolution status of said cars. The only proper way is to show only the type of the car and nothing else. In any other case You always show some bullshit in the results.
An example - You have 5 Fiesta R5 on the start line. You know that one team has everything available installed and the other has new engine but not new dampers and new gearbox ratios. The other three teams are foreign and You know nothing about them.
What will You show in results? One Fiesta R5 Evo, One R5 1/2 Evo and three R5? What if all the other three are fully upgraded? Or partially upgraded or each of them in different way? How do You know?
You can never know that and showing the state for just several known cars is simply wrong (Can You be even sure they are really known? have You checked each part Yourself?). That's why the only correct way is not to show such details at all.
Anyway there was decent difference between Fabia S2000 (2009-2010) and Fabia S2000 facelift (2011-) also known as "Evo2" ...It was different from outside and also from inside. BUT it would be arguing about nothing.
But it's still the same case. What made it Evo? larger track and different body parts? But the wide car could have old bodyshell with different placement of some parts (for example I think later cars had battery at the back), it could have old engine, older gearbox etc. More important parts could have been old while those visible could have been new.
Honestly, neither yours nor Pluto’s explanations are totally clear (besides the issue of no one being able to say from outside that the car is a Evo 1, 2 or 3...) and one purpose of the forum is to learn something with the others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
So, can you or any other member answer these questions:
With current R5’s (lets put aside S2000’s or any former group or class) the joker parts are single parts or they came in multi parts kits that must be installed altogether? Can you give examples of joker parts that were allowed to be installed separately in R5 cars? Don’t the joker parts (or kits) must be registered on the car tech passport? If yes and if they're acctually kits and not single parts, what’s the problem of making mandatory the use of the designation Evo 1/2/whatever, besides the car model’s name on entry lists? Thxs in advance.
Sorry, I can't tell You any details because I simply don't know them. I can only tell You general principle and that is very similar answer to that one which PLuto told You.
Normally the homologation has several types of extensions. Some of them are mandatory some not. Some of them need jokers some of them not, some may be introduced any time without any limitation.
If I remember right this is what You can find in the homologation form:
VF - means several different suppliers are allowed for the same part
VK - kit, using defined by manufacturer in the homologation list
VO - optional part; normally it's not allowed to combine various VOs for some functional parts, for exmaple You can't combine brake discs from one VO with calipers from another one
ER - this is the mandatory stuff, erratum replaces previously used part; regulations define which parts can be homologated only as ER
IMHO if there is some sort of set of several homologation extensions bound together it's from functional reason not due to regulations saying that some stuff has to be bound to another.
Regarding jokers I would need to have specific homologation regulations for R5 which is not a freely available document therefore I can't say which modifications fall under which category of extensions and what is their application policy. IMO at least all ER shall require jokers but probably many VOs too.
PS I apologize if something what I said is not totally accurate. Someone who works with it daily for sure has better knowledge than me.
I see that the issue of Evos are not as simple as it seems.
But Rally-Power asked a valid question, will different upgrades be registred into the FIA Passport of the individual car?
Jokers need to be registered in gold book. But not all R5 have gold passes. Some other modifications also need to be registered, some not. So it's not that easy and straightforward.
Some Software/firmware updates also need to be mentioned in gold pass.
Some jokers are necessary to be used in groups, some separate. All depends what is written on homologation documents of those.
So there is no easy way to track all the cars like they are without seeing their gold books. And not all cars have gold books and some have not recently updated ones. Most of the time they update the gold passes only on ERC or WRC events. So if car drives only national events you can just guess what's inside.
It's really a mess...and a shame that FIA doesn't care to make regs more clear and easily understood by the fans.
Regarding jokers, found this in the Appendix J Article 261:
"All the parts homologated on the VR5 Variant form must be used in their entirety. These parts
must not be modified.
The use of a part homologated as “Joker” on a car will be noted on its technical passport.
It will no longer be possible to use the old part as from the date specified."
I think the only fans that care are us sad folk on here (and I use that endearingly!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
R1 - R5 is plenty clear enough to understand IMO.
191 to Bastien Heron Racing (F)
https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...1c&oe=5936F430
199 to ZM Racing (A)
https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...49&oe=5932C7E3
So when will 2018 R5 regs be published? Presumably Ford and Citroen are working on their new cars already..
Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
Why dont all R5 cars have gold books?
Is the manufacturer responsible to sell them with an updated gold book, or do they get it on their first FIA rally?
So if the car has only been used nationally, no Gold Book, or does this differ btw manufacturers?
How can customers in the market for a used R5 verify that what he buys, both regarding software and hardware, is what the seller says, or does he just have to trust the seller saying that this car has the following upgrades.
Could be a tough experience using borrowed money to buy a top notch Evo 'Y', and a check after you have been smashed in a rally from a competitor with a real Evo 'Y'. He has the car checked, and find it is a basic R5 without any upgrades.
Can you as a buyer demand to have a FIA approved Gold Book, of recent date?
FIA golden pass is FIA stuff and is being issued by FIA officials. What is happening on national level is in the scope of particular national ASNs, not FIA.
AFAIK the golden pass for the car is created only when the car first time appears on FIA scrutineering. There is no need for doing so before. National ASNs don't require it and not all cars are sold by the factory as complete vehicles. Some are just kits in crates.
With buying used cars it's same like with common second hand cars. You'd better take someone who knows the stuff with You to check everything. Some sellers are honest, some promise You wonders and sell garbage. Such is life. FIA golden pass doesn't give You any guarantee that what is written in it is also installed. It's only a paper saying that the stuff was there when FIA saw the car last time.
Ivan Ares is apparently going to drive Hyundai i20 R5 in the Spanish rally championship:
https://www.facebook.com/FanpageRIsl...type=3&theater
Robert Barrable to give Hyundai i20 R5 Irish Tarmac RC debut In West Cork next month.
Paddy Flanagan, ITRC Manager:
“We all know what a talented driver Robert is, it was fantastic to see him along with Damian Connolly back in the Tarmac Championship in Galway, and now, going to West Cork in the new Hyundai i20 is another brilliant boost for the championship. We now have five different manufacturers represented in class 5″.
Robert plans a short test before the serious business begins in West Cork.
Elwis Chentre and Fulvio Florean are going to drive Hyundai i20 R5 in Rally Il Ciocco (the first round of Italian rally championship on March 19):
http://www.motorzone.it/rally/al-via...yundai-i20-r5/
http://www.svsport.it/typo3temp/pics/r_2df43340e9.jpg
Bigger air restrictor? It’s a wild guess but the Skoda unit testing in Portugal seems faster than the current one and like it was suggested it could be the first test car for both Skoda and VW ’18 models.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
D1OM video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DPaKvl69vk
Pech
https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a8&oe=59263033
Rallybaron (Finland)
https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net...50&oe=5939FF28
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...923d7e0cf5.jpg
Car from OPV from Slovenia, driver Viliam Prodan in Croatian championship.
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...923d7e0cf5.jpg
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I would imagine that the crew has the homologation papers for scrutineering that corresponds to the parts used in the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
It does look and sound more powerful but they could just be testing some joker parts which are due this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
I notice MSport no longer list the Fiesta R5+ on their website (34mm restrictor vs. 32mm standard). Anyone know whether this car proved reliable for the people that used it and whether it provided much of a performance boost?
In the past the VOs (variant options) was the way to homologate the competition parts. I think nowadays the VO homologations are mainly for parts that don’t have a big impact on the performance and the real competition parts are homologated with jokers which amounts are restricted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I once asked a guy from our ASN and he said that it’s impossible to deduce which VOs or ERs on the homologation list (http://www.fia.com/regulation/category/760 General - 2017 complete list of homologated vehicles with extensions) are competition parts (jokers) and which are VOs (some brackets and supports etc.) because both are VOs in homologation list.
I’m not sure but I think the joker homologation only applies to R5 and WRC cars and cars in R1 – R3 classes still follow the traditional VO homologations.
Vaclav Pech and his new Ford Fiesta R5 on a test session:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC6p_qg-7PY