All this for less than 10 cars !, Its a Joke, FIA Get a grip.
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All this for less than 10 cars !, Its a Joke, FIA Get a grip.
So let's say you're 5th after saturday but it's tight. You menage to climb to first on sunday, so you win the rally but you're 6th on the power stage. And there is a guy who was first after saturday, won the powerstage and comes second in the rally and gets way more points than the winer. Cool
Without additional points for wining the RALLY it's a load of bullshit
OK... read the FIA regulations.
So basically every rally becomes two rallys. You get points for your position after saturday, and sunday has it's own classification (only the stage times from sunday add up). Power stage will be run with no changes, and as I see it no additional points for the RALLY winer.
Another thing.. i think you only get your Friday-Saturday points if you finish Sunday.
aand we are back on ,,take it easier'' Sunday :DQuote:
Originally Posted by RS
No, it will die before the end of the decade, the championship anyhow;Quote:
Originally Posted by seb_sh
If anything I’d change the point scoring system back to what it was in 2003-2009, 10-8-6-5-4-etc.
And that would be good for what exactly?
YepQuote:
Originally Posted by RS
Wrcwings has written out the main things here
https://x.com/llluis555/status/17358...C1kV5QC61vX5Xg
Well we have such a small group of cars finishing might as well reward them for the top 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walach
So, “boring” Sunday becomes “boring” Saturday?
LOL what. That's dumber than I thought then, what's the point of splitting the rally in two then? So if a driver wins the Friday+Saturday rally, he gets some suspended points that he might actually get only if he finishes Sunday?Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
And who's the winner of the rally? The one that tops the overall classification after Sunday (who might end up with less gained points than others) or the one who won the Friday+Saturday rally (who might get 0 points from the weekend if he retires on Sunday!)?
If David Richards has anything to do with this, he needs to be locked away once and for all.
This was announced at the WMSC at the same time as the creation of the Working Group. This isn't Dave Richards' doing, it's more likely to be from one or more of the drivers who want to sparkle up the championship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Hudson
The other classes are still included except manufacturers, no change there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
If you 'win' Friday/Saturday, then take it easy on Sunday, you're opponents may beat you on Sunday and take more points from the rally than you. And you might not win the rally.Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
Pretty clever really.
Rally winner is always who completes the rally with shortest amount of time, dont be silly about it. Nobody is splitting rallies into two. You retire you get nada.Quote:
Originally Posted by focus206
At first I thought it was a bad system but now after putting in some thoughts about it, it is acceptable for me. Drivers now have to put in more work to earn those maximum points. Only doubt I have about this sytem is that those point differentials are too small.
I won’t judge it before we have some rounds and see how it turns out in reality
yeah obviously, it may look fine on paper but reality is different, and vice versaQuote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
I’m with you, let’s see how it works in practice before saying it’s bullshit or whatever. I think there could be some positive upsides to it, at least they have tried to do something positive about the boring Sundays, and on the face of it without discrediting the whole rally. Guys who have had a problem on Friday or Saturday and dropped back will surely see it as an opportunity to not lose as many points.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
What about superrally? Retire on Saturday, restart on Sunday and take 7+5 points?
Didnt see any mention about Restart on sunday on that FIA document. So that means 7+5 is a possibility, especially on tarmac. Would be harder to accomplish on gravel because of worse road position.Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeR
There are going to be messes that they will need to sort out by tweaking the rules going forwards. It won't seem very fair for example if one driver wins legs 1&2 then retires with a technical failure on the final stage with zero points and another bins it on SS1 but does well on the Sunday and takes home up to 12 points.
So championship leader, on friday, gravel rally as he starts first on the road, has almost no chance for friday win?
So the rules are still punishing championship leader by sweeping the road.
I dont know, First rally is monte Carlo Rally, you really want to win this rally, so, you push as hell until Saturday night, you run out of right tyres, but you won the rally. Now you go to Sunday to just complete the race. You run all the day with wrong tyres, you are as slow as hell, other cars are catching you stage and you are the winner at the top of the Col de Turini, looks very nice? and finally it comes out that second place finisher takes the biggest amount of points from the rally, but no, he is the first looser.. who is going to Sweden to clean the road.. you are maybe third on the road, win again on Saturday evening, doing slowly on Sunday as you ran out of good new spiked tyres in Sweden.. and someone else is collecting again more points.. but you won the rally.. Finally, you can win all the rallies of the year, but not winning the championship? This in my view is nonsense.. they should still take overall time of the rally and just award extra points for Sunday if they really want, but why to make these kinds of confusions?
That is rallying/motosport, a crash or technical failure could happen on any stage, be it ss2 or ss22.Quote:
Originally Posted by RS
But now that you mentioned it we might get saturday cruising.
What in the hell is a friday win?Quote:
Originally Posted by Managarium
OKQuote:
Originally Posted by Tauri_J
The fastest driver on friday.
Now I'm confused. Overall time still decides rally winner or I misunderstood it?Quote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
Why does it matter here? Its always been like this. Championship leader still has saturday to improve his positioning for sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Managarium
The Rally winner is the one with the overall fastest time come Saturday evening, however he must finish the rally on Sunday to claim that win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauri_J
As far as I read, overall time is stopped on Saturday evening. Sunday starts from zero:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauri_J
For the World Rally Championships for Manufacturers, for
Drivers and for Co-Drivers, points will be awarded for each
rally taking into account the general classification after
Saturday (with all time penalties accrued until and including
the final time control on Saturday) according to the following
scale....
...
To score points, the crew must be classified in the Final Classification of the rally. If a crew is not classified in the Final
Classification of the rally, the next Competitor(s) will be moved
up to score points.
...
For the World Rally Championships for Manufacturers,
for Drivers and for Co-Drivers, additional points as per the
following scale will be awarded according to an accumulated
general classification of Sunday only, comprising the part
from the first time control after the overnight regroup up to
and including the final time control of the competition element
of the rally (with all time penalties accrued in this part of the
competition).
That is not true, if it is....my god this is the stupidest thing they have ever done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli
I think we will still see Sunday cruising, for example driver A is 1th on Satarday, cruises on Sunday to save tyres and then wins the powerstage he'll get 18 points + points for anything between 3rd and 5th on Sunday and 4 or 5 points on the powerstage). It would be hilarious to see that.
Anyway great way to make the sport unattractive for everyone, explaining this to casual fans will be fun and super engaging.
Yeah I read all about it but it clearly needs clarifycations.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
Right now I understand that overall time still decides rally winner.
Rally winner ≠ max/more points than 2nd position or 3rd etc
I mean you could still win the rally(with max points) finishing like 6th on saturday evening and everyone in front of you goes full banzai on sunday and crashes out. You move up from saturdays standing to 1st and will be fastest on sunday (7 points) + PS points.
Anyway my point is it will get super complicated and this point system has so many variations and will be hard to understand for fans. Like you said it would be much easier if it was just extra points for sunday.
If you read bluuford's post you will see it is (unfortunately).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauri_J
It would have been far simpler to scrap the power stage and tyre regs for Sundays. Call me an old fart but I preferred rallying when it was simply try and achieve the lowest overall time and you get points for that only.
It worked fine until Sebastien Loeb started his dominance and then the problem wasn’t the format, it was that one guy was better than everyone else around him. Regulating against someone or a manufacturer’s dominance is folly and never works, just creates mess.
I agree with the sentiment of ‘lets see how it unfolds this season before judging if it works’ but I always disagree with gimmicks to spice up motorsport and I judge this to be a gimmick. The problem with Sundays is cruising, so eliminate the cause of the cruising instead of adding another layer of contrived ‘show’ in the hope that every minute of every rally will be classic-not-to-be-missed moments.
Sport, and motorsport especially, works best when you allow the natural ebb and flow of competition from event to event. Without panicking that one even was a walkover and last time out was a classic, we didn’t know who was gonna win until the last stage and we’re ruined if the next round doesn’t deliver that exactly all over again!
When actual rally fans have so many questions about the new rules, imagine the casual fans. Up there they are obsessed in their belief that fans hate boring rallies/races and want excitement, but they fail to understand that fans, no matter how casual, hate complicated and unnatural formats even more.
Nah you would lose more fans, especially casual. Power stage is fine as it is right now. Most of the drivers go flatout there and it is really good to watch on TV.Quote:
Originally Posted by HKSjbg
This will make sundays even worse. As some have already mentioned, drivers will cruise to keep their saturday points.
If they are really dead set on using this format, they must remove the superrally rule, or not require the saturday winner to finish the rally to get points.
As it stands now:
- The driver who was the fastest over 2/3 of the rally needs to finish the whole rally to get 18 points.
- The driver who was the fastest over 1/3 of the rally can be someone who binned it on the first corner. He can then get 7+5 points on sunday.
I also expect people who lose time to mistakes and punctures on the first day to just cruise on saturday as theres not enought kms to catch up and all it much more probable that some of the guys fighting for saturday points will bin it and you get free points.
These changes are so stupid, it's like a bad joke
On this I think I agree, extra points on Sunday for whoever is fastest over the last leg would be more simple, and there would be no potential confusion over who ‘won’ the rally. If we have a situation where Saturday leader gets a puncture on Sunday and someone else has lowest overall time but Saturday leader wins the rally, that sounds a bit daft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauri_J
Overall time counting ends on Saturday evening as stated in regulations. For me that opens the situation that some drivers cars maybe only want to take rally wins (very good and high publicity). For example if conditions in Sweden are really bad, you can use 6 new tyres each loop. you run out of good tyres for Sunday and then it does not matter, as long as you dont go OTL, you can finish Sunday like hours behind, but you are still rally winner by crawling across the finish line.. Like this year in Sardegna, soft tyre was the fastest but there was not enough of them and Sunday was expected to be very bad. Most of drivers run out of softs by Sunday. So, you can now do it, win the rally by Saturday evening and cruise whole Sunday and even loose 5 min in each stage and you are still winner of the rally and get all publicity, despite the fact that maybe someone collects 27 points and you as a winner collect 18 points. So, theoretically it opens the window that you win all the rallies, you get 13 times very high publicity from each rally, but you are not winning the Championship. I dont know if it is what we want?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauri_J