Not as silly as this:Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yQmQ1ZvYAo...85_722263a.jpg
...and this:
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ttelwebber.jpg
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Not as silly as this:Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yQmQ1ZvYAo...85_722263a.jpg
...and this:
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/a...ttelwebber.jpg
Not to forget his antics in the Brazil race 2012. I'm not sure that Mark has reasons to point fingers, but still doesn't make Vettel's move right. I just think Mark shouldn't throw stones as long as he's in the glas house.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
If it wasn't for the great nuances, I would have discounted this GP as another "tire managed show and lottery". However, the devil was in the details...
1. Alonso plows his car into Vettel after turn one, refuses to pit when he can, ends the race in kitty litter. This was really bizzare. He probably has more to explaining to do after the race than Vettel, Hamilton, or Ross Brawn.
2. Hamilton briefly stops in McLaren pit box to say hi to his old crew. A great comic relief. This was cute.
3. Lotus cars are not as mighty is it was thought. They were clearly struggling against the "weak" McLaren cars, Sauber, and a few others. I think after 4-5 races they will drop to their "usual" place in WCC.
4. Force India pits Sutil and Diresta on the same lap. Di Resta waits parked as the crew has problems changing Sutil's tires. This was just stupid.
5. Force India botches Di Resta's pit stop.
6. Both Force India cars retire... what's up. Did they just decide to have a "free" engine or transmission change?
7. McLaren botches Button's tire change, dropping him from a great, possibly top 5, points position down to like 16th place. Then calls him into pits on the last lap.
8. The weird "stand off" between Mercedes drivers.
9. The stand off between RBR cars.
10. The most tense F1 podium ceremony we have seen in a long time.
Overall, a great race!
There will be a lot to discuss for three weeks until the next race in China.
I don't think there is anything lacking on the whole with racecraft in F1, I think it is more about the culture of micromanaging everything. Something that perhaps couldn't be done without the vast information available to the teams thanks to sensors on the cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
By the way, regarding the fuel saving of Mercedes I just remembered a similar situation, which was solved in a different way. Belgian GP in 2011. Schumacher was catching Rosberg and late in the race Rosberg was told to save fuel. So Schumacher overtook him and got 5th place.
So I think Rosberg feels that Brawn hasn't been consistent in his application of team orders and felt uncomfortable during the race.
Brundle mentioned that the most probable scenario is that Mercedes would have offered Hamilton a contract whereby he is the undisputed #1 in the team from the outset, which explains what unfolded in the race.Quote:
Originally Posted by jens
I also think that's what we saw unfold in the race.
Pure speculation from Brundle and it irritated me when I heard him say that. I expected more from him. It's just stirring the pot for the sake of it. Ross Brawn himself came out and said that Hamilton hadn't asked for any special treatment and he'd be an idiot to give it considering how fast Nico is. I personally feel this is total rubbish and completely unfounded.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftingGears
I wasn't really referring to that, but the suggestion that, had the RBs and Mercs been allowed to race, they wouldn't all have finished. About micro-managing, I agree it's unnecessary. Because the technology exists doesn't mean it should be used.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftingGears
....Which has me thinking the only thing about Hamilton’s fuel situation which warrants Rosberg having a go (and I'm not slagging Lewis) is that there is a very high probability that the decision to run with minimum fuel was his race engineer's and his, although I could be wrong. If this is the case and he ran lighter than NR, NR should have been allowed to race for the win beyond the final pit stop all the way to the end of the race, as I don't think he (NR) should have had to compromise his (sufficient fuel for pressing all the way to the end) strategy.
Well one thing is pretty sure, there aren't going to be team orders at Red Bull any longer. They can say what they want on the radio, but Webber isn't going to yield under any circumstances after this and today we saw what Vettel's position is.Quote:
Originally Posted by zako85
Well it looks like Herr Digit has just become the spiritual successor to Didier Pironi - not a nice place to be!
Its not like team mates haven't crashed into each other before in past generations.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Radio excerpts made public has given the inner workings of teams and drivers.
I feel sorry for both Mark and Nico today. I use to cheer for Seb but today thatīs not the case, his action can harm him later in the year I fear.
Same thing for the Nico/Lewis deal.
At least Hamilton was gracious on the podium "it should be nico standing here". And at least he didn't go to the press and sell us a load of BS apologies like bieber.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia 01
I just wish the Mercedes was a little bit quicker, that would have been a race, the two Merck and the rbr's.
I love the TV show The Wire. I think D'Angelo Barksdale said something in reference to Vettel after today's race, and it was something along the lines of "sometimes, niggas just got to git got. Ya, feel?" So, yes, Vettel is going "to git got" sometime this season.
Also, why didn't Mark shove Vettel against the wall? Instead he sat down and moped "Multi-21, Seb. Multi-21" while on his ass. Mark should've at least picked a fight with the little squirt and got into Marko's face for good measure. Sad that Mark's Ol' man had to be there to witness his son getting punked by Vettel.
it will happen. No one can get away with it forever, especially when there's grosjean and pastor on the grid!Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
I liked this view of the Weber/Vettel scrap. Sebastian Vettel vs Mark Webber 2013 Malaysian Grand Prix Team Radio Extra - Dailymotion-Video
Pretty clear to me that Vettel didn't give a damn about team orders, so Webber should play the same game. Helmut Marko will probably have to step in to make sure Webber doesn't chop Vettel at China.
He already did, twice - Silverstone 2011 and Interlagos 2012.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
Again, not really the point I'm making.Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge
Don't hold your breath, modern F1 fans have a memory that lasts about 60-70 laps.Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
Does my modern f1 memory tell me you quit F1 forum once. ;) :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Welcome Back though. :)
Then could you be more specific. Driving standards? Aggressive manoeuvres? The lack of trust and respect?Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Images of Alonso's Ferrari eating the front wing: http://imgur.com/a/jfFVI#2.
Silverstone I can acknowledge, and Mark still came behind Vettel. I don't understand what happened at Brazil in 2012. Vettel spun and had to make up ground in order to have enough points for the WDC. How was Vettel's mistake Mark's fault?Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
He was asked to help Vettel, but instead almost boxed him in at the start and later in the race he was ordered to give way, but didn't, so the team had to call him into the pits to get him out of the way. As I said, Vettel's move was wrong on many levels, but Mark is the last one with a right to complain. He isn't exactly a team player either.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
About the best thing that could come out of this RB spat, is some sort of self destructive behavior in the coming races on Vettels part. I mean how exciting if one or both RB's crashed today in the last few laps (Turkey anyone??).
I know a guy that might benefit from that this year and secure his 3rd Title ;)
If that's the case, then I'm shocked!Quote:
Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster
In response to Webber in Brazil 2012, it is hard to judge things like blocking in at the start of a race, as a driver is concentrating on all aspects of an F1 start and it wasn't so dangerous to the point of making Vettel take avoiding action. It was just a bit close.
As for the later incident that could be true, but even in late 2012 he had been move out the way and treated badly many times so he was probably already pretty unwilling to help.
I dont think these two drivers ever really got on, probably since Fuji in 2007.
I thought it was fair enough if Seb wants to play it that way, just dont make a stupid, stomach churning apology. Also from Marks Point of View if he has disobeyed team orders before then he should expect nothing better.
Then it becomes an issue of how Red Bull control this situation going forward
2-lap onboard footage with Vettel and Webber.
F1 2013 - R02 - Vettel vs Webber battle onboard Sepang - YouTube
:s tareup: That really was a good dice. It's a shame it is shrouded in controversy.
Yeah, I just wish Webber pushed Vettel out at that last bout. Instead we just saw Webber get emasculated on-track.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Alca-Tazizzle
Red Bull are claiming the fastest ever pit stop at 2.05s for Mark Webber, with 5 stops for the team under 2.3s.
I am not able to post links but the story is on Red Bulls website.
Interesting. Strange that Webber braked so early into T4. He was basically side-by-side with Vettel before the braking zone and with a late braking could have defended his track position and tried to block Vettel from getting a better exit. Webber is even a nose ahead into the corner, but Vettel had a much better racing line and gained a position there.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY