iRally confirmed no golden stage for Andreas.
They reported a few days back that Scotland is out of the IRC next year as well
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iRally confirmed no golden stage for Andreas.
They reported a few days back that Scotland is out of the IRC next year as well
Time for celebration overnight? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by VFTS
People who say Andreas doesn't deserve the title are just as bitter as Kopecky was in the interview at the final stage end. He said Andreas was 'lucky' - this coming from an extremely average driver who was nowhere near the fastest this season and got most of his points through luck as others have issues. The co-efficient system is totally fair as not only is it the same for everyone, but it makes the gravel-tarmac balance more even.
Mikkelsen has been the fastest and best driver this season. For this reason he is a very deserving champion.
You are exaggerating to the other side...
First Kopecký won two events in straight battle lasting till the very last meter. Both with the toughest possible IRC opposition.
Andreas won most of the stages but on the other hand he also made a lot of mistakes, crashes, punctures etc. So I'm far from saying he was the best driver of the season. He was the best driver of last two events with higher point coefficients, that's without any questions.
But the best driver through whole season was clearly Juho Hänninen who drove only a fraction of events and made by far most points/start. Unfortunately he made his only big mistake in the worse possible moment but still, he drove four rallies less than Andreas and despite that he was the only one who didn't need victory here to take the title...
You are right that everybody remember only the champions... but for me the best driver throughout the season has been the one who has got most wins, and has done only one mistake, but unluckily he did it during the last rally. I would not say he is slower than our Champion :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by pettersolberg29
Congradulation to Mikkelsen and Skoda for 1,2,3,4,5,6!
PS! Nasser will not start tomorrow as well. No spare engine.
Fully agree with you Mirek.
Also don´t forget that Kopecký has been an overall runner-up in three consecutive seasons - that doesn´t look like results of "an extremely average driver".
Okay maybe I exaggerated to be honest but it's frustrating to here a driver like Kopecky moan about Andreas' 'luck' when Mikkelsen has been generally very unlucky this season. Yes he crashed a lot, but I believe the champion should be the fastest driver even if he makes a couple of errors - for example if Mikko ends up winning the WRC it would be almost a joke as he has been only the 4th or 5th fastest driver this year. Consistency is good, but speed is more important in deciding a deserving champion in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
I do agree that Juho may have been an equally deserving champion based on results, but based on outright pace I'd still say Andreas is the quicker driver. Juho has more experience and is therefore more reliable, but he is no longer the outright quickest - Neuville and Mikkelsen have leapt ahead and if they can stay consistent then they both have massive futures.
Again I do have to admit Juho has been massively impressive in the IRC again this year but Andreas beat him fair and square in Scotland and in my opinion his pace in Cyprus would have been too much for Juho. If it wasn't for stupid mistakes in Hungary and punctures in San Remo Mikkelsen would have had 40 extra points before Cyprus, and I know you can't base championships on ifs and buts but this means that Juho's mistake is more than evened out in terms of points. And as I say above, I now think Andreas has overtaken Juho in terms of raw pace.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
But he is also the only driver who is given all the factory support of the Skoda team for those 3 years and who has taken part in almost every rally possible, while Juho has to pick up points in less events and Andreas and Neuville have only had one full season. Kopecky is a good driver at IRC level on tarmac, but compared to the WRC big 5, Juho and Andreas I would say he isn't very close. For example his win in Zlin was handed to him after Mikkelsen got unlucky with his car, but Andreas came back on Sunday and blitzed the stages. And Kopecky's win in Hungary was only because Andreas through it away again while leading comfortably. Kopecky recently seems to only pick up points when others fail!Quote:
Originally Posted by Honza H.
Anyway, this should be more about celebrating Andreas' win, so I'm sorry for bringing Kopecky's bad sportsmanship into it.
Link for Golden Stage here: Watch Live IRC Rally Cyprus Online Video IRC Rally - Motorsports
I've got a question... If the Golden Stage is won by a factory driver, for example Kopecky or Hanninen, what do they do with money? I mean, from the organisers' side the money go to personalities, driver+co-driver. However, in case of a factory crew, the driver uses not his own car, but a car provided to him by his team. In this sense, the prize (money) should be considered as a product of rent. In common life, if we take land in rent and grow vegetables in it, the vegetables (the A Product) is ours. If we borrow equipment and poroduce packaging for our vegetables (the B Product), it's also fully ours as long as we pay rent. But what about the Golden Stage? Who actually gets the money?))
Lucky moment for Vizin
Neuville wins first run ! 5 seconds faster than Juho!
If you want to see results, so here - Golden Stage Rally 2011 - Results - Rally-Base
this is faster: Rally FICr
Hirvonen has never improved since Grönholm retired from the WRC. Hirvonen hasn't shown flashes of speed and he had 3 or 4 times teamorders in his favour this year. I don't know why he must be in this topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by pettersolberg29
Kopecký has shown the speed on tarmac, there weren't teamorders in his favour and a 2nd place on gravel in Cyprus with another codriver isn't bad in my opinion. With all points systems in the past, Kopecký would be the logical champion.
Which bad sportsmanship do you mean?
Now we have an IRC champion who crashed much more than the other title contenders.
LOL :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wim_Impreza
The party was huge I supose. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by VFTS
It was a puncture on Troják not a problem with his car.Quote:
Originally Posted by pettersolberg29
You also keep playing with word luck. But why is someone who doesn't crash lucky and someone who crashes all the time unlucky? It may be a question of luck if it happens accidentally but if You crash/puncture in half of the events and the other one doesn't crash at all, it has nothing to do with luck but just with driving style and overall attitude. Kopecký is the guy for whom first target is to finish. For Andreas first target seems to be being the fastest. We saw that this brings very different results under different rules (just compare how Pons became SWRC champion and Mikkelsen became IRC champion). For IRC it's definitely better to risk as You have plenty of jokers to spent but still we are all human and someone just doesn't want to risk as much as the other. Now Andreas would have to step further and also find consistency because to success in WRC this flat out style can't work. Let's hope he is able to improve reliability. Speed is no question.
I think that this is a question of crew/team relationship. Could be different in each case.Quote:
Originally Posted by White Sauron
Incredibly crazy drive by Neuville. What a crisis there in live...
what a ride! i was really scared he would crash any moment. big, big respect!
Hahaha, totally awesome! :) Very crazy attacking from Neuville, many close calls there but made it to the finnish. Totally deserved win. :up:
Jakke Honkanen and Jussi Välimäki commentating in Finnish Eurosport, funny reactions when half of the car was hanging in the ditch. :D
Big congratulations to Thierry and Nicolas, amazing drive trough Golgen Stage with several narrow escapes, but he made it and won deserved in front of Juho and Jan. I think he have a great future in front of him.
Congratulations to Neuville, experience starting to pay off and awesome driving style. I think he is the new Ogier on the way.
Hopefully a new Loeb=))Quote:
Originally Posted by Francis44
think so too, especially when you look for how long he´s driving rallye at all now and what a good speed he has on gravel, with almost no gravel experience yet. he started rallyeing in 2008 and has only driven 7 gravel rallyes including cyprus, thats crazy!
Woo hoo, brilliant drive from TH - so who would make a better Citroen no 2. Neuville or Hirvonenen?
If anyone is interested I'm currently auctioning a signed Neuville and Gilsoul poster on e-bay - Very pleased to have a spare and a shot I took at Ypres 10 signed by him. I remember looking at the provisional results at Ypres last year and he was standing next to me, totally un-hassled. Think he might be very much a centre of attention from now on.
He was driving supreme already for the whole season from Canarias onwards...
Ehhh, it's funny how always after a good result people get super-exicted and are transferring guys to WRC factory team. :) Come on, Neuville has only driven seven gravel rallies and he has very limited experience in WRC. You really think he could manage Citroen's second seat?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
Hoping to see Neuville in SWRC (and different national series) next year.
I hope he stays in IRC one more year, cause theres much more competition than in SWRC
Woo hoo, brilliant drive from TH - so who would make a better Citroen no 2. Neuville or Hirvonen?
If anyone is interested I'm currently auctioning a signed Neuville and Gilsoul poster on e-bay - Very pleased to have a spare and a shot I took at Ypres 10 signed by him. I remember looking at the provisional results at Ypres last year and he was standing next to me, totally un-hassled. Think he might be very much a centre of attention from now on. :champion:
More than Juho can manage a VW second seat, I would venture. However, SWRC would give him another year's experience of WRC rounds (as Tanak has done this year).Quote:
Originally Posted by Juha_Koo
bravo to Neuville for his blitzspeed.In a ss without championship points risk, he was faster than Juho.In first half of the year if somebody had to tell me something like this i wouldn t give even 10% chances.Rallying magic strikes again.
Extreme progress through the year for Neuville on both surfaces.
Juho seems that he has toped his progress,and from know he hasn t got any more to give.Afraid that is not enough for making the next step in wrc.On the opposite Mikkelsen and Neuville seems that they haven t toped their progress.
Kopecky 0,6-0,7 sec km/h slower.No comment.
ps Mirek feel free to discuss :p :
I have nothing to add as I agree with You.
I can discuss. I think that Juho lost his speed due to his step into SWRC. In IRC you must push from beginning till the end, in SWRC it is more about tactics (longer stages, less number of tyres, less number of services, less number of rivals, superally etc.).
Some new photos from Cyprus by Josef Petru - Autosport
http://www.autosport.cz/img/clanky/b...91032e8bd4.jpghttp://www.autosport.cz/img/clanky/e...9b25938a67.jpghttp://www.autosport.cz/img/clanky/1...eab67a239a.jpg
I brought Mikko up because Kopecky is a similar sort of driver - going for points but rarely showing flashes of real pace this year. And in my eyes, the quickest drivers i.e. Loeb and Mikkelsen deserve the titles. The bad sportsmanship I mean is that Kopecky had the cheek to say that Andreas has got 'lucky' in the last two events at the final stage end, which is completely out of order. And it doesn't matter if Andreas crashed more - he was the fastest and in my opinion its the fastest driver who deserves to be champion. Its not like he never finished rallies - he won 2 and came a very close 2nd in Azores and San Remo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wim_Impreza
Puncture, sorry. But the point remains as not all punctures are due to driving style but instead can be bad luck if massive rocks are dragged into unnoticeable areas in front of him. Kopecky has been lucky to see other drivers have incidents and for him to avoid them. Yes skill is obviously involved too as crashing isn't a skillful thing, and some punctures are due to dangerous driving style. But in my view Andreas has been unlucky with punctures, and maybe inexperienced with accidents, which took away massive points in Hungary and potentially Monte Carlo. I think I just beleive the fastest driver is the deserving champion - be it Hanninen, Neuville or Andreas, but Kopecky was undoubtedly not the quickest this year. For him to win through consistency isn't the same as a driver winning through sheer pace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Congratulations to Neuville as well by the way. What a load of potential there is there.
First of all, I don't think Juho has lost his speed. The youngsters (Tänak, Mikkelsen, Neuville to a degree) have only caught up on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Juho took the SWRC title and could've taken the IRC title as well if not for a major mistake. Juho won 3 IRC rounds this year. Is SWRC really a regressing series, I don't believe so. It's clear that the field is far narrower than in IRC, but Hänninen vs. Tänak battle takes from the winner the same amount of dedication than the IRC battles. What I think could've effect Hänninen's performance this year is outside pressure - namely VW - but this is purely guessing. It's a different mindset to drive for a future seat than to drive only for victory of a rally or series. And even with his mistakes on the second half of the season, Hänninen should be considered as one of the unproven, but definitely fast, all-around, hugely experienced, PR friendly driver - someone who should have a place in this sport. And that is not anything taken away from the three abovementioned youngsters: generations change and those all are very potential guys to go pro in this sport, all with natural way of approach to take progress.
Also, in addition, 2011 IRC season was awesome. Great rallies, great battles, many great drivers. I can only hope this series takes on in the future too with new drivers coming into mix while the best leave for WRC.
Agree 100% - the IRC is still going strong even if its becoming a Skoda championship, but hopefully Neuville, Bouffier and Wilks can get even more involved next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartusvuori
Watching Neuville was just fantastic :) Ever since I saw him live in Hungary on the absolute limit, I just know he is the next big thing :) Don't forget- Neuville didn't even start his first rally when Mikkelsen was going WRC and Irish tarmac in WRCs !