Yes you can. Mouldy proved that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
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Yes you can. Mouldy proved that ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
I would like to think that defending your position legitimately is acceptable :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
He had the racing line till he went off it to block Hamilton. The line he took is not the racing line :DQuote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
I'm gonna have to watch the race again tonight cause some of you buggers are saying the opposite to what I'm sure I saw :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
And if Schumacher drove off a cliff should Maldonado done so as well? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
Definitely not. If one person shows common sense and racecraft, another person is definitely not "supposed" to follow suit. But should he? Probably yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Just look at the pictures posted above. It's clear that Maldonado left the racing line.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
One would imagine but that's probably not really the case because it suits his "argument".Quote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
How was Maldonado supposed to know what Schumi had done? His common sense was quite surprising actually. I'm quite sure he was doing what he thought Schumi would do :p :
It is reasonable to use other cars lines through corners (uncontested) to establish the genarally accepted 'racing line' - that is the line of least resistance that allows you take the corner at the fastest speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
When you are defending from a faster car, it is accepted to deviate from this racing line in order to prevent the move from being attempted - permitted blocking.
Retrospectively applying this 'blocking' once the overtake is being made does not constitute permitted blocking - especially if to attempt the block requires the use of track already occupied by the overtaking car.
Irrespective of whether or not another car decides to drive 'off a cliff' common sense and a modicom of driving etiquette should be displayed.
What also amazes me is that Maldonado was clearly aware that Hamilton was right on his tailpipes, I mean he swerved twice on the main straight to block him. So, did he think that Hamilton just disappeared at Sainte Devote? If he looked in his right rear view mirror, it would have been full of silver, yet he turned in early? OR as some people here claim, made a turn on the "normal racing line." :rolleyes: Besides it's impossible not to hear the Mercedes V8 behind him. If I can hear a 0.8L V2 crapola engine behind me with my helmet and ear plugs on in a entry level single seater car race in India, I'm sure Pastor would have at least heard that Mercedes roar. That's at least how Alonso described it a few years ago when Kimi was catching him.
:laugh: :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by eu
It's generally accepted that in Kimi's McLaren days, the Mercedes 'roar' was followed in quick succession by internal engine parts and hot liquids exiting a holed engine block.... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by X-ecutioner
Whatever. You guys are ridiculous.
Awwww, shucks - you're just sayin' that....... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
In those pics , it is clear that the shoe was closer to the racing line .
From there he had a chance to slow it down to make the corner , despite Lewis to his right .
It's also clear that Maldonado was a car width closer in , and there was much less chance for the same move .
The shoe's choice was to let him go , as he had room to do it .
Pastor had the choice of either going into the wall out side , as he had entered tighter , or going for the apex , as he did .
It did not intimidate Lewis , to go into a much tighter spot , but it should have , as Pastor had already shown his intentions .
Remember that when you compare the two , that the shoe had entered wider , expecting a move .
Pastor , having entered tighter , would perhaps have expected Lewis to have backed of , knowing there was no room .
Pastor failed to intimidate Lewis , and when Lewis went in , there was no way to get through the corner for Pastor without trying for that apex .
In fact , it's unlikely Lewis would have made the corner at those speeds and that angle , if Pastor had not been there , as he was very far from the racing line , on dirty and un-rubbered track .
I think Lewis will be fine, he will eventually learn how to drive fair when only very few wins and no WDC comes his way.
Wrong. Pastor had the choice of going straight on and turning in later to the corner or turning in on Lewis to cause the accident which was avoidable. He chose to turn in on Lewis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
By this logic, I think that Schumacher was completely in his right to push Barrichello into the pit lane wall in Hungary. Schumacher had the choice of either going to the left hand side of the pit straight , as he was coming towards the first corner tighter, or going for the apex , as he did :D
I'm a Schumacher fan and always thought he was wrong there but I'm now beginning to think he was right.
:laugh: Probably that is what Alonso was referring to. The Mercedes roar coming closer, then the sound of a big blast fading away.Quote:
Originally Posted by SGWilko
So basically everyone should let everyone through? Can you please stop typing your text in somewhere else then pasting it into the forum, the font and size tags are annoying.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Nope, but Pastor could have tried to drive around Lewis other than into him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Ah so the pasting is what was causing that. That was infuriating me having to delete those all the time.
So basically Pastor had to move off the racing line and let Lewis through?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
I have to agree to disagree with that view as my view overrides your view which is viewed from a view that is inferior to mine and wrong as it does not agree with my disagreement on this subject that you refuse to agree to agree with me that my view should be your view and therefore is the right view :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
He moved off the racing line to block him. If he had kept the racing line there was c chance he would have kept the position and neither would have collided.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Ok , so , you know about momentum , right ?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Black Knight
Pastor was tighter in , and had he tried to leave another car width for Lewis to go into , he would , indeed , have been going straight .
That is , straight for the wall .
By the time Pastor was a car-width inside of the ideal racing line , it should have been clear to Lewis that his rival would not get through that corner without going for the apex .
Lewis , by that time , was the only one with a choice .
His choice was to either try to intimidate a guy who had no other choice but the wall , or dodge right to cut to the inside of those curbs .
Now , to be fair , Lewis didn't exactly have a lot of time to think in that moment , but then , his moment to think was a few moments earlier , when he went in on a guy clearly defending hard , with a line , a car-width inside the ideal .
He was right to go in , earlier , when he diced with the shoe , as he knew from the shoe's line , that it was possible .
But , hey , now he knows that Ste. Devote can sting you , even if your name is Lewis .
LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
It was also very possible from Maldonado's line until he decided to cut across him and take an early turn in point. You're not filling me with confidence that you really have a grasp on what went on there at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
Lewis had committed to the overtake before Maldonado turned in. He would have slowed down for Saint Devote, he was going to same speed he was when he overtook Schumacher and they didn't touch.
At least we've cleared up that Maldonado wasn't on the racing line now. It took 21 pages but someone finally admits it :D
The pictures show he wasn't on the racing line .
It is no "admission" on my part .
You are not filling me with confidence that you understand that momentum thing I spoke of .
The farther you are to the outside of the approach , the later you can leave your turn in , to catch the apex , bringing you out of the turn quicker , approaching the outside wall at exit at a lesser angle .
Maldonado is far inside the optimum line , necessitating an earlier turn in .
He went for the apex as late as he could , and obviously hadn't expected Lewis to be alongside .
He had believed he had shown by being so tight to start with , that nobody would risk that dive .
He was wrong .
The stewards believed , though , that he was right to believe as he did , and punished Lewis , accordingly .
Hamilton should reconsider the people he hangs out with. Their idiocy is starting to grow on him.
Maldonado's line was nowhere near far to the centre of the track nor was he far enough left, as we look at it, to justify moving in so early.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
YouTube - ‪F1 2011 - Hamilton crashes into Maldonado (Monaco 2011).mp4‬‏
Have a look at this clip. You will see at 10 seconds there is a HRT turning into Saint Devot which at this point in time Maldonado is shaping up for a very simlar turning point into the corner as the HRT, so he clearly had the ability to take a wider line into the corner, thus elongating the radius of the corner but increasing the speed at which he exits. At this point in time you will notice that Lewis is almost side by side the Williams so Maldonado knew that an overtake attempt was coming up.
At 11 seconds Maldonado begins to turn in after slightly going off the racing line - fractionally. This is the point when he begins to cut across Hamilton At this point in time Hamilton had nowhere to go but down the inside of Maldonado, even if he brakes to the best of the McLaren's abilty, he was already committed to the overtake. Also, please watch the car behind that was, for some reason, on almost exactly the same line as Maldonado but yet takes a much later turn in point proving, by the way, that Maldonado didn't have to turn in at that point in time in which he chose to, he did so to cut across Lewis leaving him nowwhere to go.
You'll notice also that Hamilton begins to turn later than Maldonado does, as soon as he notices Maldonado cutting across him, and he has even less of an angle to play with than Maldonado himself but yet could still make the corner himself at this point. At this point in time Maldonado could have gone further on and taken a wider angle into the corner. He didn't.
12 seconds. Hamilton is clearly trying to avoid Maldonado at this stage.
13 seconds. Maldonado forces Lewis across the cones. Leaving him nowhere to go and they collide.
At no point here did Maldonado have to take this line into the corner nor did he give Hamilton any room to go. If you look at the line Maldonado did take it's becomes a very straight line. I'd actually love to see in car footage of Maldonado because it looks like at one stage as though he has little or not lock on his steering.
So what could Hamilton have done, given that he was already committed to an overtake? Answer: Absolutely nothing.
I wanted to convey this with still images but unfortunately the site won't upload any images from my computer. I don't know why.
Lewis will be fine, with only a few wins per season and no WDC coming his way he will adapt his driving.
I'm still slightly confused as to why McLaren forced Lewis to apologise to his fellow competitors when he's OBVIOUSLY done nothing wrong?
Lewis Hamilton apologises to F1 rivals after Monaco scrapes | thetelegraph.com.au
Daniel , I'm confused now , too .
I can't figure out why two former drivers , now commentators , in that clip of the incident , immediately decided it was Lewis's fault . It seemed they thought it was obvious .
And , then that former driver , Allan McNish , acting as steward thought so , too .
And , Daniel , Lewis didn't say he was wrong , but rather said he hoped what he said hadn't upset them .
There's a not so subtle difference .
It seems rather typical of his character .
He can neither resist the red mist , nor can he admit to it being a problem .
because he is BLACKQuote:
Originally Posted by daniel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
because he is BLACK
Here's the important part from this article:Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
"Lewis has apologised for criticising fellow drivers Felipe Massa and Pastor Maldonado"
He has not apologised for the incidents just for what he said afterwards.
Those two ex drivers are wrong I'm afraid. You should learn to make up your own mind rather than just listening to what others say. I thought that Lewis was wrong also in that incident with Maldonado until such time as I watched it again. Then I realised that it was Pastor that turned in and cut him off rather than him just lunging down the inside in the hope it works out. As I showed in my post above, he was already alongside him. His attempt to overtake perfectly legitimate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagwan
If drivers can no longer make overtake attempts like Lewis did against Pastor on Sunday we will see no exciting overtaking or driving in F1.
so we must believe The Black Knight over 2 ex-drivers and a steward who penalised him.......ummm ok.......I won't watch another race this season i'll just listen to what i'm told is the actual outcome :rolleyes:
Jeez, if he had pulled of the passes without incident there would have been no penalty, he took his chance and it didn't pay off - he was penalised accordingly.
What's so difficult about that.
However his idiotic comments afterwards was something else completely.
You must not believe anyone. Try being an individual and having your own opinion......Quote:
Originally Posted by Tumbo