Unless they are untrue, there are no grounds for legal action, surely?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Printable View
Unless they are untrue, there are no grounds for legal action, surely?Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
But we haven't heard any of the actual evidence yet. So we have no idea who is telling the truth. It's all very well for us to think one way or the other, but as yet we have no idea whether or not the incident in question took place in the way described. It's like assuming that if a scandalous newspaper story is printed about someone and they don't sue, the subject of the story must have done exactly as reported. Things just don't work like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
Or an obvious lack of common sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by henners88
This is one scandal I refuse to follow and from what I read in this thread, I had a good reason. Both Piquets AND Flavio showed their complete lack of class - they disgust me! Especially the gentleman comments, absolutely disgusting!
Who cares what kinds of insults they throw at each other, They (Piquet/Renault) delibrately but a f1-car into the wall!!!! Haven't seen anybody died because they were hurt by a insult, seen plenty die because debris flying around.
Evidence?Quote:
Originally Posted by Daika
Piquet drove the car and imply that he crash the car because he has a weak character, not able to resist pressure, afraid to lose his driving seat if he didn't comply with orders. Google up Piquet comments and leaked evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
OK, ioan first posted this a couple of pages ago, and you may have missed it. It is a rather long read and very well worth reading, although it appear does daunting when you first look at the number of pages: http://axisofoversteer.com/blog/docu...%20Of%20PK.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
So, try to imagine Rumpole as the person representing the FIA and questioning Pat Symonds, and imagine Charlie Shean as Pat Symonds. Then it becomes a fascinating read, and you'll probably laugh your way through it.
This is not a scandalous newspaper, and in fact, the evidence is clearly set out. I can see that I will have to keep referring to this link for those who have either missed this post (and ioan's original post giving this link) as forum members keep visiting this thread but have missed this report and are unaware of the weight of evidence against Flav and Pat Symonds.
All credit for providing this link must go to our chief forum investigator ioan, who has done a great job finding this.
Enjoy!! :p :
The ICAC has a long arm. Just ask Warwick Reid. http://www.ibk-lawyers.com/leadcase/reid.phpQuote:
Originally Posted by ioan
The thing is, I don't know whether there are extradition agreements between Singapore and Europe.
As provided in my post above. Enjoy!! :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
would like to know how much money was paid out over the alonso win in Singapore
maybe alonso had no idea about the race fixing ?
Would you tell a FIA snitch about your plans
http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/mod...cle&sid=119296Quote:
Williams co-owner Patrick Head told reporters on Sunday that a journalist informed him Piquet had confessed about the crash 15 minutes after the Singapore night race.
Briatore Out, Prost Or David Richards In ?
Rumours have been circulating that Serena Williams will be representing Flavio and Pat during the WMSC hearings. So far, the rumours have not been confirmed. Please stay tuned.
I think Flav has to go no matter what the outcome. His behaviour is calssless and tarnishes the Renault brand.
I hope Dave Richards gets another crack in F1.
Finally got around to reading ioan's little nugget :up:
Really interesting read there. Now we have some reliable evidence, hopefully we can draw some conclusions and the ones I draw are parallel to the FIA stewards.
1. There was discussion between at least Pat and Jr about a deliberate crash.
2. Flavs reaction to this was not that of a innocent man who knew nothing about the incident but someone that attempted a Blitzkrieg assault on the Piquets to try scare the bejezus out of them rather than investigate exactly what the situation was. Any rational principal would have investigated why Pat admitted he know about a proposed deliberate crash and go from there. Flav does the opposite and instead goes on the attack leading me to suppose that he know exactly the state of affairs.
3. Pat knows he is toast. He answers some questions but avoids incriminating Flav hoping that he can protect him. I think Flav wont be in a position to when the dust settles. The stewards confirm that avoiding answering their questions will lead them to suppose he is guilty to which he replies that he knows it will but he will not lie. Basically he says he's guilty but won't confirm it or what actually happens (protecting Flav?).
4. The crash was indeed deliberate. After Jr starts the wheel spin, he does an involuntary lift (human nature) before jamming his foot down and keeping it there to crash the car. No matter what you think of Jr's driving ability, I don't think anyone here seriously believes he would do this by accident. Hell, not even my Mum thinks the way to correct wheelspin is to jam your foot on full power until you hit a wall.
5. Motive. Renault had nothing to win in this race with Alonso's strategy and they further compromised it by bringing him in 2 laps before they needed to. If this accident didn't happen then Renault would have been nowhere but after it, the Renault team was safe, the sponsors of the Singapore GP (ING) are happy and Renault get a great result all around.
6. The contract. There was no reason whatsoever to resign Jr. He's dog slow and not a F1 driver. Why, why, why, especially after this crash, sign him again :confused:
After examining the evidence, I think the FIA will throw the book at them. I don't think Flav will escape. It would be interesting to get Tamburello's take on this as a Renault fan? I'm not trying to rub salt in but he must be disgusted as I was when it transpired McLaren were guilty of cheating.
Considering that Patrick Head was aware of this before they'd even started packing up after the race, I'm amazed/impressed/disapointed (keep changing my mind) that it has been kept under wraps for so long.
Regardless of the outcome, I'm pretty sickened with both Flav and Piquet (as much with Flavs attitude and comments after as am with Piquets actions) and incredibly sad that Pat was involved.
I'm pleased that Rubens is coming out and saying Flav was out of line with his comments, starting to like him more and more this season.
IMHO this is surely worse than what McLaren did and although I felt McLaren got off lightly I hope Renault or at least those involved get some sort of ban out of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
If they get found guilty, I hope that Flav, Pat and Jr never attend another F1 race.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
My views on Renault are in the balance. I don't know if they are conducting a personal investigation but if so, and if they accept the evidence as presented, I would like to see them dismissing both of them before the hearing or directly afterwards. If they don't, then they are being complicit and complacement. I don't think the FIA will stand for that.
i am not sure if Patrick Head did know about it at the time i think and hope that he only found out this yearQuote:
Originally Posted by TMorel
a journalist informed him Piquet had confessed about the crash 15 minutes after the Singapore night race.
Ahhhh OkQuote:
Originally Posted by thunderbolt
"He said that he became aware that Piquet may have crashed on purpose when a journalist friend of his told him that Piquet had let him in on the plot, not long after the race. "
Due to the position of the last comma, I read it as "not long after the Singapore night race, a journalist informed Head that Piquet had confessed about the crash being deliberate"
Especially when the next line was "Many in the sport had their suspicions at the time and I was one of them"
Thanks for correcting my mistake - explain how come everyone kept schtum for so long!
Possibly because there was no proof then, and it did sound rather outrageous. It only becomes plausible when Piquet Jr came out with it and the evidence including telemetry was produced.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMorel
Also, this is a very serious criminal matter, and no doubt the Singapore police will be very much involved if the team turns up in Singapore in two weeks time. You could say the timing couldn't be any better (or worse).
I'm not too sure they will arrest anyone pending the investigation by the FIA. However, it is a valid arguement that as people do bet on F1, especially in the Far East, then fixing the outcome of a race is illegal.
I would love to see the priggish, posturing Peacock banged up for questioning but can't see it somehow :(
BTW, what is that Sig you have there. Last time I checked, Jenson was trying to show Mark the way but he was so far back, he couldn't see the path clearly :D
Hey Knockie don't forget how to dream :p I think Flav would do well in a Singaporean prison :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Take the worst sort of dirty, crooked, venomous lowlife you can think of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
Now, why would the Singaporean Jails want to be polluted with that?
;)
Is it just me or Renault's blackmail related legal action against the Piquets could be taken as a guilt admission for Crashgate?
Not legally — no way.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Oh, and many thanks for the re-posting of that document, which I must confess I had missed before. It does indeed make fascinating, and damning, reading.
yep, a good read.
So it looks like at the very least Piquet and Symonds are toast :eek:
If proven I hope Renault get kicked out of this year's championship, thus freeing Alonso to replace Fisi at Ferrari :p : :crazy: :laugh:
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_3_166.gif
Too late Ferrari already used up their 4 drivers per year quota.Quote:
Originally Posted by donKey jote
Unless they can successfully argue that Badoer doesn't qualify as F1 driver. :D
What this does make me wonder is exactly how rife 'event' (whether match, race, or whatever)-fixing is in sport. One hears rumours that never make it into the truly public domain, and thinks 'That can't be true', but then something like this comes up, and you realise how simple it can be given the co-operation of a relatively small number of people.
Don't forget - they still have caning in Singapre as punishment as well as jail time. Can you just imagine Flav getting his arse caned as well as a jail term?Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
I'd rather not even try to imagine some of that. :sQuote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
There are so holes in this accusation.
Firstly, a JOURNALIST told him - since when does anyone consider that evidence rather than heresay or even worse - a journalist looking to make up a story and seeking leverage?
Secondly, the fuel issue.
If you look back at the Q3 comments of Alonso, he says that he is disappointed at his qualifying position because they thought they could achive a top four grid position - hence the light fuel load.
And it is this point that is being promoted by Nelson Sr now.
The Piquets had better hope that their case rests upon evidence and not heresay otherwise a mountain of hell is going to descend on them powered by Flavio and the French government owned company named Renault.
Either way it will be a great dosappointment to anyone that loves racing. Nobody with this sports interests at heart can wish anyone to be thrown out or whatever.
Nelson jr is irrelevant because he has achieved nothing, but his father and Flavio have achieved a lot.
This issue has been mishandled from the start and ought to have be declared sub-judice and the investigation could have proceeded that way. Ah well....
Never mind the dark whisperings now spoken of - all the Renault mechanics and others in the team were managed to be kept ignorant of this? I don't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
So, everyone kept quiet? For the first time in history nobody talked in the racing paddock? Nonsense.
And given the FOTA problems anyone thinking that Max would have kept quiet?
This whole issue is nonsense and until it has been factually proven I will consider Briatore innicent and the victim of a spoilt Brazilian bitch - Nelson jr.
I refer you to my post #435. The evidence is detailed there in the link provided.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
This is where you are quite obviously wrong. If you had read a lot of forums posters opinions rather than keep repeating your own as the absolute opinion, you might have realized this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
This accusation is no more far fetched than incidents that have happened in recent F1 history, and less wild than those that started with a copier worker within a store.
It is in the best interest of F1 to investigate accusations of race fixing and have the accused defend the accusations against them. It is not in the interest of F1 to sweep it under the carpet in hopes that the public and other teams will forget that an accusation never took place.
Very true. I have posted a link at my post # 435, in which is linked the Questioning of a very furtive and evasive Pat Symonds, and the detailing of evidence that the FIA has gathered and put to him to which he is very reluctant to either answer or even make any meaningful comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Instructing a driver where and when to crash his car and organising for a refueling strategy to suit the deployment of the safety car so that his team mate can win is nothing short of race fixing. This is an indictable offence, as both Flav and Pat Symonds will find out if they have the courage to so much at turn up anytime in the future in Singapore. They won't have the niceties of British law to protect them if they so much as land at Changi, even on transit to somewherer else.
now if this is true ?
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/sp..._strikes_Massa
- 'I cannot believe it right now. I need a couple of days to realise that we won a race this year,' said Alonso.[/*:m:2wrm7roi]
- Once the pit lane re-opened both Massa and Hamilton pitted but the Brazilian's stop was a disaster as he pulled away with the fuel nozzle still attached and into the path of Adrian Sutil's Force India car (if there had not been a rush massa may not have pulled away with the fuel nozzle still attached as the race track would not have been compacted behind the safety car and would have had more time ?)[/*:m:2wrm7roi]
- Rosberg and Kubica were forced to pit while the pit lane was closed and both picked up a 10-second stop-and-go penalty as a result.
'I was really annoyed I thought 'this is it, this is the end of it',' said Rosberg, whose second-place finish is the best in his career.[/*:m:2wrm7roi]- 'Unlucky in qualifying but lucky today,' was how Alonso summed up his weekend.[/*:m:2wrm7roi]
You know, you really need to dismount from your lofty saddle and smell the difference between Roses and Bovine Manure!Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint Devote
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle6834552.ece
Hopefully not a double post? Sounds inconclusive to me.