The Ferrari thread !

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10th August 2009, 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knock-on

It must just be me but can you explain why a driver that wasn't the most reliable or quickest in the team would be Team Leader over the World Champion.

Just asking like ;)

It's obvious to those with brains and eyesight.

Kimi is lucky still to be in the car. For his sake, I hope he outperforms a 40 year old rusty Tedesco speaker.

Massa has become the defacto team leader, certainly in terms of the affection with which he is held within the garage. It shouldn't ever have happened, but then the fault for that isn't with Ferrari or the little Brazilian.
10th August 2009, 14:56
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

This is news to me :rolleyes:

Massa is probably more established within the Scuderia, but to claim he is number one over Kimi is a strange statement IMO. Ferrari have been keen to publicise that their drivers have equal status regardless of the issue of Kimi's salary being nearly twice Felipe's. Kimi had a poor last season but he is the only WDC in their garage at present, so I think he would have something to say about Massa's sudden number one staus.

Is this fact? or a theory bouncing around the Ferrari online fan club and deriving from the Santander apreciation society? :p

I think the correct term should be that Massa is the "performance #1 driver" at Ferrari over the last two seasons up to his crash at the last race. Kimi's huge salary clearly indicates who Ferrari thought the #1 driver should be. The last two seasons have proved the opposite with the Brazilian outperforming his Finnish counterpart.
10th August 2009, 15:02
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

You do have a point with this and Autosport ran an article which suggested Felipe has a stronger bond within the team than Kimi. Whether this means team leader or not, I don't know.

Teams generally take to the driver who shows the most commitment and provides the most/best feedback to the team. This is where Schumacher was so good at Ferrari and where Massa is maybe getting one over his teamate. We all know Kimi has a fairly low work ethic and prefers to pitch up and drive before heading home to put on a gorilla suit and have a few drinks. Thats his nature and he aint gonna change.
10th August 2009, 15:11
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Theres no need to get so abrupt with me little man thank you very much!!

I believe that slamming something untrue has to be done before other peoples start believeing it, it's in the best interest of society. :D

And BTW I used exactly the same tone you used in your post, so don't cry for nothing. ;)
10th August 2009, 17:04
gloomyDAY

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Not sure I understand your logic.
Anyway Massa has been the team leader for the last 2 seasons and he is very well integrated in the team.

Well I meant that Massa could be axed on the supposition that Alonso joins the team. We all know that Alonsita requires a great deal of attention, so another driver that could directly compete against him wouldn't go down too well.

My understanding is that Ferrari will most likely retain Massa and if Alonso joins Ferrari, then he'll just have to live with the fact that a team driver can push him throughout the entire season.
10th August 2009, 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

It'll be challenging for FA if Massa is his team mate as they will be on equal term like you say, as he hasn't had this kind of situation since Mclaren.

He didn't have that kind of situation at Mclaren.

"We were racing Alonso" was, I believe, the quote of the team boss.
10th August 2009, 17:37
gloomyDAY

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

He didn't have that kind of situation at Mclaren.

"We were racing Alonso" was, I believe, the quote of the team boss.

Oh, that little incident. :D
No amount of Ron speak could get him out of that pickle.
If he felt so threatened by Alonso, why didn't he just bench his butt?
10th August 2009, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

You'll be telling me next that Ferrari fans are disgusted Schumi's test was blocked by teams hoping to stick to the rules... Never ;)

Since this is a Ferrari fans thread, shouldn't you already know the answer since, by defintion, you must be one? Or are you just a troll?

The answer to your question, for those masquerading as Ferrari fans who aren't, is that Schmui's test was blocked by a team hoping that history will repeat itself and that they will benefit from an injury to a Ferrari driver.

Sporting ethics had feck all to do with it, as anybody who has met Frank Williams will tell you. He made a decision to benefit himself...nothing wrong with that...but only the keenest cock-sucking British fans would believe it was done in the interests of fair play. That is typical British F1 fan BS, to be expected from a mob with only an IQ of 5 between it.
10th August 2009, 18:22
gloomyDAY

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

Since this is a Ferrari fans thread, shouldn't you already know the answer since, by defintion, you must be one? Or are you just a troll?

The answer to your question, for those masquerading as Ferrari fans who aren't, is that Schmui's test was blocked by a team hoping that history will repeat itself and that they will benefit from an injury to a Ferrari driver.

Sporting ethics had feck all to do with it, as anybody who has met Frank Williams will tell you. He made a decision to benefit himself...nothing wrong with that...but only the keenest cock-sucking British fans would believe it was done in the interests of fair play. That is typical British F1 fan BS, to be expected from a mob with only an IQ of 5 between it.

:eek: ................................... :rotflmao:

Tamby, chill. Go paint a fresco or something.
10th August 2009, 19:13
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

I think the correct term should be that Massa is the "performance #1 driver" at Ferrari over the last two seasons up to his crash at the last race. Kimi's huge salary clearly indicates who Ferrari thought the #1 driver should be. The last two seasons have proved the opposite with the Brazilian outperforming his Finnish counterpart.

Massa was "performance #1 driver" at Ferrari over LAST season, this season they were pretty evenly matched with Kimi outqualifying Massa more often than not and Massa having an upper hand in some of the races due to pace, some due strategy. Check the statistics.
10th August 2009, 21:47
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Ps If I have an IQ of 5 or less, then I've done bloody well for myself... ;)

Well, you are certainly good at talking yourself up! :p :
10th August 2009, 21:49
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

Massa was "performance #1 driver" at Ferrari over LAST season, this season they were pretty evenly matched with Kimi outqualifying Massa more often than not and Massa having an upper hand in some of the races due to pace, some due strategy. Check the statistics.

Let's see, before Felipe was taken out by a rogue spring at Hungaroring, the points standings was: Felipe 22 to Kimi's 10!

Maybe in Finland that means evenly matched, but this side of the polar circle it means outperformed by a mile. :D
11th August 2009, 03:04
Boudica

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Teams generally take to the driver who shows the most commitment and provides the most/best feedback to the team. This is where Schumacher was so good at Ferrari and where Massa is maybe getting one over his teamate. We all know Kimi has a fairly low work ethic and prefers to pitch up and drive before heading home to put on a gorilla suit and have a few drinks. Thats his nature and he aint gonna change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

I think the correct term should be that Massa is the "performance #1 driver" at Ferrari over the last two seasons up to his crash at the last race. Kimi's huge salary clearly indicates who Ferrari thought the #1 driver should be. The last two seasons have proved the opposite with the Brazilian outperforming his Finnish counterpart.

Driver salaries haven't got much to do with it, if Ferrari were really interested in making a lead driver out of Kimi, they could have made him the no.1 driver after he won the championship, even last year he was still leading the championship until halfway through the year. It is actually difficult say what their expectations of Kimi were if you look at their actions.

The salaries doesn't really say much, Marlboro pays the salaries not Ferrari. The difference between salaries also isn't as big as some people believe, last year Kimi's salary from Ferrari was 18 million and Felipe's salary was 13 million. The bulk of Kimi's salary is personal sponsorship. We also dont know the full criteria of their salaries and contracts. It is also properly related to marketing, in last years FIA/ING survey Kimi was still voted the second favorite driver after Lewis eventhough he had a bad year.

As far as development goes, this year has been quite interesting with the open radio radio transmissions. Interestingly enough Felipe hasn't given any feedback so far, we mostly just hear Rob Smedley giving him feedback and instructions. In fact Jamie Alguersuari has given more feedback in free practice, then Felipe has done the whole year. I dont have problem with that, Felipe have obviously found a system that works perfectly for him, and he should of course stick with it. But I just find it very difficult to believe that he is doing the "development" within the team, from what I have heard so far this year, I am sure Schumi's radio conversations will be quite interesting. That being said development and feedback are also highly overrated these days, when the teams dont even require any testing during the the year.

Some people think the situation with Kimi, Ferrari and Felipe are very complicated, personally I just think that Kimi doesn't fit in Ferrari.
11th August 2009, 07:51
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boudica

Driver salaries haven't got much to do with it, if Ferrari were really interested in making a lead driver out of Kimi, they could have made him the no.1 driver after he won the championship, even last year he was still leading the championship until halfway through the year. It is actually difficult say what their expectations of Kimi were if you look at their actions.

The salaries doesn't really say much, Marlboro pays the salaries not Ferrari. The difference between salaries also isn't as big as some people believe, last year Kimi's salary from Ferrari was 18 million and Felipe's salary was 13 million. The bulk of Kimi's salary is personal sponsorship. We also dont know the full criteria of their salaries and contracts. It is also properly related to marketing, in last years FIA/ING survey Kimi was still voted the second favorite driver after Lewis eventhough he had a bad year.

As far as development goes, this year has been quite interesting with the open radio radio transmissions. Interestingly enough Felipe hasn't given any feedback so far, we mostly just hear Rob Smedley giving him feedback and instructions. In fact Jamie Alguersuari has given more feedback in free practice, then Felipe has done the whole year. I dont have problem with that, Felipe have obviously found a system that works perfectly for him, and he should of course stick with it. But I just find it very difficult to believe that he is doing the "development" within the team, from what I have heard so far this year, I am sure Schumi's radio conversations will be quite interesting. That being said development and feedback are also highly overrated these days, when the teams dont even require any testing during the the year.

Some people think the situation with Kimi, Ferrari and Felipe are very complicated, personally I just think that Kimi doesn't fit in Ferrari.

I disagree. Kimi was hired by Ferrari to replace an ageing Schumacher and they hoped he would carry on Schumachers legacy as a dominat driver in F1 for Team Ferrari. As it turns out, in 2007 Kimi did a good job and delivered the goods, only to let Massa surpass him in 2008 and 2009.
11th August 2009, 07:54
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

Massa was "performance #1 driver" at Ferrari over LAST season, this season they were pretty evenly matched with Kimi outqualifying Massa more often than not and Massa having an upper hand in some of the races due to pace, some due strategy. Check the statistics.

Wrong! The only statistic that counts is how many points you have, and Massa had more than double Kimi's tally up to his crash. Who cares if you qualify on pole then get say 2 points :?: Points win WDC's & CC's which is what teams and drivers aim for. There are no points for qualifying besides a Noddy badge to put on your wall at home.
11th August 2009, 08:05
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Let's see, before Felipe was taken out by a rogue spring at Hungaroring, the points standings was: Felipe 22 to Kimi's 10!

Maybe in Finland that means evenly matched, but this side of the polar circle it means outperformed by a mile. :D

Kimi had more reliability problems. How was the qualifying? You seem to consider yourself as an F1 expert and you know that no matter what the points tally is, qualifying is also taken into account. And lets be honest, Kimi is the only Ferrari driver to be on the podium this year on merit (Monaco), not helped by moving chicane Heikki. Nobody cares about fourth places except you when your poster boy gets them. However, I do hope Felipe gets back and Kimi stays at the team so this comparison can continue. Talking about polar circle, your countrymen have definitely found it as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

He didn't have that kind of situation at Mclaren.

"We were racing Alonso" was, I believe, the quote of the team boss.

An almost rookie Finnish driver was given a fair opportunity against a British driver at Mclaren, I tend to think that a world champion would get at least the same treatment. But obviously you know everything better.
11th August 2009, 08:09
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Wrong! The only statistic that counts is how many points you have, and Massa had more than double Kimi's tally up to his crash. Who cares if you qualify on pole then get say 2 points :?: Points win WDC's & CC's which is what teams and drivers aim for. There are no points for qualifying besides a Noddy badge to put on your wall at home.

People do care about quali, in 92 Brundle often matched Schumi and even beat him in some of the races but he wasn't a great qualifier so nobody remembers that. Anyway, who cares, I'm off to sunshine.
11th August 2009, 10:41
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

Kimi had more reliability problems. How was the qualifying? You seem to consider yourself as an F1 expert and you know that no matter what the points tally is, qualifying is also taken into account. And lets be honest, Kimi is the only Ferrari driver to be on the podium this year on merit (Monaco), not helped by moving chicane Heikki. Nobody cares about fourth places except you when your poster boy gets them. However, I do hope Felipe gets back and Kimi stays at the team so this comparison can continue.

Apparently you've got your head deep up Kimi's behind, so I'll let you drool over his qualifying performance. BTW qualifying isn't taken into account anywhere.

As for my poster boy, he was on the podium this season on merit and I bet he would have wiped the floor with your sleeping beauty if not for an unfortunate accident.

We all know you Finns are McLaren fans so I don't see why you continue to troll in this thread? Can't you air your frustrations somewhere else?

I like Kimi but I can't wait the day when he leaves F1 just because I won't have to read the sh!t his fanatics are spreading on this board. :\

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

Talking about polar circle, your countrymen have definitely found it as well.

Are you looking for a ban?!
11th August 2009, 10:43
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

Anyway, who cares, I'm off to sunshine.

Good for ya, try getting plenty of it, it might help with brightening up.
11th August 2009, 11:12
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

Saying all Fin's support Mclaren is quite frankly a generalisation made up as a childish dig to support a weak arguement IMO.. I don't hear the Fin's claiming all Romanian's prefer Trabant racing.. :p

First of all Romanian's don't buy Trabant, so next time before you decide to launch in a childish dig try to get hold of some facts! :laugh:

Second, Finns are McLaren fans in a proportion of 99% because of Mika Hakkinen, Kimi Raikkonen and Heiki Kovalainnen's time spent with Mclaren and because McLaren did show an affinity for Finnish drivers.

Thrid, the Finns don't claim such things because even if they are lost in their love for their drivers, they are still smarter than you! :p :
11th August 2009, 11:19
555-04Q2

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

People do care about quali, in 92 Brundle often matched Schumi and even beat him in some of the races but he wasn't a great qualifier so nobody remembers that. Anyway, who cares, I'm off to sunshine.

Wrong again! F1 only cares about winning and securing as many points as possible, no matter where you start on the grid.

P.S. Dont get sunstroke ;)
11th August 2009, 13:00
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

It wasn't childish dig, thats not my style, I was simply trying to point out the irony of making generalisations. Like saying British people drink nothing but tea, drive Bentley's and talk about cricket... Give it another read in context :)

Well, while your description of the Brits is probably true as you are more in the know than I am, I can only say that your fantasies about Romanians are wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

You may be right about a certain amount of Finnish fans preferring Mclaren with their links in the past and present, but you can't make assumptions that the entire population feels this way.

I wasn't talking about all the Finns, only about the die hard F1 fans. Maybe I should have pointed it out that grandmas are not included! :p :

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

The first Finnish person who comes along and claims to be a Ferrari fan, and you throw a Mclaren yarn in his face?? Just wanted to point this out thats all.. Peace :s mokin:

Don't worry, I'm sure I'm right about this Finn being a McLaren fan, I'm well aware about his history on this board. ;)
11th August 2009, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

This rant coming from a man who claims he was part of a Le Mans winning Mazda outfit and other reputable teams, yet has one of the most biased views towards a team he never worked for??? Sounds fishy to me, perhaps you didn't get the break in motorsport you wanted here in Britain and its tainted your view of our general population? Either that or you spent years crying at the gates of Maranello dreaming of what could have been... I don't know.. If this offends you then I apologise in advance.

In answer to your question - My first marriage was destroyed by my addiction to work and the demands and pressures of motorsport.

I wasn't going to make the same mistake with my second. So when the Ferrari jobs came up, I let them pass. I could not give it the time and the intensity that it required.

The love of my life and the love for my family, even for a Tifosi, is more important than a wind-tunnel.
11th August 2009, 16:03
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

In answer to your question - My first marriage was destroyed by my addiction to work and the demands and pressures of motorsport.

I wasn't going to make the same mistake with my second. So when the Ferrari jobs came up, I let them pass. I could not give it the time and the intensity that it required.

The love of my life and the love for my family, even for a Tifosi, is more important than a wind-tunnel.

:up:

PS: Don't take henners seriously, he's just airing his frustrations with regards to his 'life threatening' job as a product designer! :D
11th August 2009, 18:58
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

We do have a saying here in the UK though for all the graduates who come flooding out of University and can't get a break. "If all else fails.... Become a teacher"... Now that really is a dangerous option!! ;)

Most of what you know you learned from a teacher! ;)
11th August 2009, 21:04
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Apparently you've got your head deep up Kimi's behind, so I'll let you drool over his qualifying performance. BTW qualifying isn't taken into account anywhere.

As for my poster boy, he was on the podium this season on merit and I bet he would have wiped the floor with your sleeping beauty if not for an unfortunate accident.

We all know you Finns are McLaren fans so I don't see why you continue to troll in this thread? Can't you air your frustrations somewhere else?

I like Kimi but I can't wait the day when he leaves F1 just because I won't have to read the sh!t his fanatics are spreading on this board. :\

Are you looking for a ban?!

If anybody deserves a ban, it's you. Anyway, I've realised (like many here I'm sure) that it's pointless to argue with you.
11th August 2009, 21:13
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

It wasn't childish dig, thats not my style, I was simply trying to point out the irony of making generalisations. Like saying British people drink nothing but tea, drive Bentley's and talk about cricket... Give it another read in context :)

You may be right about a certain amount of Finnish fans preferring Mclaren with their links in the past and present, but you can't make assumptions that the entire population feels this way. The first Finnish person who comes along and claims to be a Ferrari fan, and you throw a Mclaren yarn in his face?? Just wanted to point this out thats all.. Peace :s mokin:

I don't think most fans over here prefer teams, they prefer drivers from their home country like the Spaniards, Brits etc. At the moment I kind of like Ferrari, I just wish Todt was still there and I've got mixed feelings about Mclaren since I feel Heikki is not always given a fair chance. So I'm not a Mclaren fan, but thank you for taking on Ioan while I was busy burning my skin. :)
11th August 2009, 22:32
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

If anybody deserves a ban, it's you.

Because I put up with your BS and I'm gentleman enough not to tell you a couple of things you would fully deserve to hear?
11th August 2009, 22:36
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by henners88

To be honest I've learnt more in industry than I ever did at University or school related subjects. Two of my teachers said teaching was less stressfull which is why they were where they were. Its a stepping stone, you get a qualification on a piece of paper and then you join the real world where you realise its very different. So to add to your comment... no, most of my knowledge did not come from an acedemic teacher, more aquired through working alongside people with experience and expanding the limit knowledge I had. In the UK anyone with a degree can do a PGCE and become a teacher, 3 of my close friends have done this including my girlfriend who did the course and then got a job as a Graphic designer which she has done for the last 7 years.
Teachers are great but they certainly aren't the font of all knowledge.. :)

I wonder what the world would have been without schools and teachers?
How would he have been able to evolve from the darkness of the Middle Age to the society we have now if only a select few would have had access to knowledge?!

Those from whom you learned from teachers too.

And if it wasn't for academics I wonder how far the engineering, the health care and many other domains would have evolved.

I'll stop here, because it isn't the right thread to discuss this topic, but I hope I gave you enough food for thought.
12th August 2009, 01:51
Boudica

Quote:

Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

I disagree. Kimi was hired by Ferrari to replace an ageing Schumacher and they hoped he would carry on Schumachers legacy as a dominat driver in F1 for Team Ferrari. As it turns out, in 2007 Kimi did a good job and delivered the goods, only to let Massa surpass him in 2008 and 2009.

Well, if you want someone to deliver in a certain way you also have to give him the tools to do so. And that goes both ways for Felipe and Kimi.

The points standing is good way for distributing prize money and so on, but I am sure teams dont take that narrow minded approach for evaluating race performances. Take the Hungarian GP of last year, Felipe had a fantastic race but he didn't score any points, was Heikki really better then him that day eventhough he scored the winning points? The points doesn't always tell you the whole story. :)
12th August 2009, 02:00
Boudica

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

I like Kimi but I can't wait the day when he leaves F1 just because I won't have to read the sh!t his fanatics are spreading on this board. :\

:laugh:

Why on earth should a driver like Kimi just leave F1, while drivers like de la Rosa are considered for race seats next year?
12th August 2009, 07:57
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Because I put up with your BS and I'm gentleman enough not to tell you a couple of things you would fully deserve to hear?

This is what I have stated here:

1. Kimi being better than Massa in qualifying more often than not this year .Kimi has made it into q3 nine times while Massa did it six times. FACT
Link:
http://groups.google.com/group/de.re...c7ffa53272df3#

2. Massa having an upper hand in some of the races due to strategy:
British GP, Kimi started 9th and made a very good start but had very little fuel on board, Massa started 11th with a lot more fuel and benefited from that. Ferrari made a bad call on Kimi's strategy. FACT

3. Massa had an upper hand in some races due to pace. (I don't think we need a link) FACT

I also wrote that Kimi had more technical problems than Massa which prevented him from scoring points FACT
Links
http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2009/12.html

http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2009/18.html

4. Kimi scoring a podium on merit. If you start second and finish third and shadow the cars in front of you, in the real world that is a podium on merit. If you benefit from a slow car holding others up, you gain an advantage because of that and to an extent inherit your position. Massa drove very well in that race, I'm not saying that.

These arguments are debatable but bs they aren't. It's just sad that civil discussion is so hard here.
12th August 2009, 08:11
CNR

Ferrari Push To Field Third Car In 2010
(buy bmw and they can have 4)
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/394...d-car-in-2010/

same old BS or not ?

Quote:

FERRARI PRESIDENT Luca di Montezemolo will push for his team to run three cars next season in a bid to entice Michael Schumacher back to Formula 1.
Schumacher’s brief flirtation with a return to the sport ended after it was revealed his neck was unable to withstand the rigours of Formula 1.
However, Di Montezemolo believes the departure of BMW Sauber at the end of the year will create an opportunity for two of the sport’s established giants to field an extra car on the grid, and provide the seven-time World Champion with a chance to launch his comeback.
And he believes Schumacher would have no trouble adapting to the changes which have affected Formula 1 since his retirement in 2006.

“Well we’re talking about Michael Schumacher. He is 40 years old, but he’s still from another planet,” Di Montezemolo told Italy’s La Stampa.
12th August 2009, 08:12
Shalafi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

I like Kimi but I can't wait the day when he leaves F1 just because I won't have to read the sh!t his fanatics are spreading on this board. :\

Well MS quit at F1 but it didn't stop the sh!t that his fanatics are still spreading on this board. ;)
12th August 2009, 09:24
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunderbolt

Ferrari Push To Field Third Car In 2010
(buy bmw and they can have 4)
http://www.themotorreport.com.au/394...d-car-in-2010/

same old BS or not ?

[/INDENT]

We'll see what happens.
He needs to get the support of Bernie and this move would certainly make that happen, but I'm not sure that MS wants to come back for a full time drive.

What they should do instead is say that every team can field a 3rd car, that is not supposed to get points if the 2 main drivers finish the race, in order to give young driver the possibility to get practice in a F1 car. They can put whomever they want in the 3rd car as long as the person qualifies for a superlicence, and also change them as often as they want.
12th August 2009, 09:25
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shalafi

Well MS quit at F1 but it didn't stop the sh!t that his fanatics are still spreading on this board. ;)

Good try! ;)
The reason they are still around is that most of MS' fans are Ferrari fanatics! :)
12th August 2009, 09:49
Garry Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Let's see, before Felipe was taken out by a rogue spring at Hungaroring, the points standings was: Felipe 22 to Kimi's 10!

Maybe in Finland that means evenly matched, but this side of the polar circle it means outperformed by a mile. :D

I dont know what season you have been watching, other than troll-land, but this year Kimi and Felipe have indeed been equal. I think they have both made the most of the ty car they have had to deal with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Apparently you've got your head deep up Kimi's behind, so I'll let you drool over his qualifying performance. BTW qualifying isn't taken into account anywhere.

As for my poster boy, he was on the podium this season on merit and I bet he would have wiped the floor with your sleeping beauty if not for an unfortunate accident.

Do you really need to show the world your stupidity through posts like this?

Quote:

I like Kimi but I can't wait the day when he leaves F1 just because I won't have to read the sh!t his fanatics are spreading on this board. :\

His fans are no worse than fans of some other drivers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexDexter

'
These arguments are debatable but bs they aren't. It's just sad that civil discussion is so hard here.

It is impossible to debate with ioan, because he will just ignore your arguments and then tell you not to respond to him again.
12th August 2009, 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

I dont know what season you have been watching, other than troll-land, but this year Kimi and Felipe have indeed been equal. I think they have both made the most of the ty car they have had to deal with.

Agree with you, but that does mean that Felipe is better value for money and Kimi is over-hyped and over-paid.
12th August 2009, 15:48
Knock-on

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

Agree with you, but that does mean that Felipe is better value for money and Kimi is over-hyped and over-paid.

Totally agree. I have always said Kimi is over-rated. I remember all the crap from members saying he was being hampered at McLaren and would flourish at Ferrari. Well, he got a WDC by the skin of his teeth with a superiour car but hasn't exactly shone since.

Massa on the other hand has come on leaps and bounds in my opinion. He was a bit of a liability in the early Ferrari days but particularly this year seems pretty well hooked up.

I'm with Luca M and wouldn't say he's amazing buy worthy of a drive.
12th August 2009, 16:11
DexDexter

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

Agree with you, but that does mean that Felipe is better value for money and Kimi is over-hyped and over-paid.

I agree that his salary is too big for today's F1. The real question is whether Kimi is over-hyped or Felipe under-valued. If Felipe is better than people think, then there is certainly nothing wrong with Kimi's performance.

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