Time's Up for Latvala...

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28th October 2009, 17:43
snellman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macd

Petter is hardly past it. In his first gravel rally in a C4 he did pretty well.
Also remember he was the last world champion other than loeb. With more practice in that car he will be winning rallys again

hah, wanna bet? :p :D
28th October 2009, 18:02
snellman

i think latvala lost his confindence in the end of this season, dissapointing the team takes hard on him
28th October 2009, 18:22
Sulland

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomi

When J-M came to England, and Pentti started coaching him, he asked once if I know some co-driver for J-M, I suggested that Jouhki should ask Jakke Honkanen if he is interested, I dont know if they did, but anyway they did choose a Brittish guy. The basic idea was that the co-driver would be experienced and while co-drive, also at the same look that the driver dont screw up too much, in a same way Harjanne did for Tommi earlier, that was a good method, and i belive it still is.

Same concept as with Petter and Phil, and that worked well. But we will never know what had happened if Petter had continued with Cato Menkerud, that is now co driving Henning ?
28th October 2009, 18:59
noel157

Quote:

Originally Posted by serial jeff

I disagree... I consider myself a Petter fan but I don't think that biases my opinion of him. Personally I thought his performance in Wales was pretty good- it was his first gravel rally in the C4 and he was setting approximately the same times as Dani all weekend (with the exception of SS7, where Dani beat him by 20seconds). With proper wipers on that stage, I think 3rd place could've gone either way.

Now I'm not saying Petter is as quick as Seb/Mikko or that he'll win rallies through speed next year (it may be possible, there is not enough evidence either way to draw a solid conclusion). But as Dani has shown, you dont have to be a winner to be a better second driver than JML.

Someday, JML might get more consistent, and then he'll be great. But until then, I think Ford's factory team would be better off with someone who's been proven he can at least keep the car on the road and end up with a solid haul of points (3rd/4th). It just happens that Petter was the only available driver who could do that- Henning is too slow to match Dani or Ogier, and there was no way Ford could have poached those guys from Citroen. There was Chris, of course, but he is also a bit of an unknown.

Chris an unknown? An unknown what? Australian?
28th October 2009, 22:33
Buzz Lightyear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juha_Koo

Petter winning? JML is a showoff?

Heheh, yeah, very amusing stuff you got there. :rolleyes:

He had a proper C4 in Wales, which is one of his favourite rallies, and he can't even make a one stage win.

We not talking about winning rallies here. We talking about scoring points. Petter could do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juha_Koo

The amount of stupid mistakes was almost unbearable.

Let me know when it becomes unbearable for you. For me, it was a long time ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juha_Koo

He's got the speed.

We know that. Loeb could drive quicker than Latvala... even on those banzi stage times, but he is putting the his life and that of his co-driver at risk, unnessaessarily. It CANNOT be sustained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juha_Koo

He's a future champion.

I've heard that 7 years ago when he landed in UK. He, in all honesty, is not that much further developed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juha_Koo

Petter then again... He's a former champion.

To be a world champion, you must have mastered the art of staying on the road.
28th October 2009, 23:32
Juha_Koo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz Lightyear

To be a world champion, you must have mastered the art of staying on the road.

:D

Say that to Ari Vatanen or Colin Mcrae...

So actually you don't have to master the art of staying on the road. It's just a question of keeping it on the road in a correct moment.
29th October 2009, 00:26
serial jeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by noel157

Chris an unknown? An unknown what? Australian?

lol, unknown ability to stay on the road. He was pretty good in 2008 though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juha_Koo

Say that to Ari Vatanen or Colin Mcrae...

So actually you don't have to master the art of staying on the road.

I don't know about Ari, but Colin's world championship came in a year when he did a relatively good job of staying on the road. He actually illustrates Buzz's point. Colin was champion in 1995 when, out of eight rallies, he had two victories and two no-points finishes. In contrast, the runner-up Carlos had three victories but three no-points. Colin won the championship that year because he finished the rally more often than his opponents, not just because of his speed.
29th October 2009, 01:15
Rallyper

JML will for sure stay at Ford. I was hearing the announcement at the pressconference in Jyväskylä when MW was praising JML and revealed him as Ford´s second driver for 2010. I will never forget the applauses from media either. :)

When JML gets his confidence back he´ll be a winner. :s mokin:

Petter also will score many points in the future. He´s not finished as some of you guys seems to believe. :cool:
29th October 2009, 09:42
I am evil Homer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juha_Koo

:D

Say that to Ari Vatanen or Colin Mcrae...

So actually you don't have to master the art of staying on the road. It's just a question of keeping it on the road in a correct moment.

Really? Like that championship he lost on the RAC by crashing ;)
30th October 2009, 16:12
Langdale Forest

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juha_Koo

Petter winning? JML is a showoff?

Heheh, yeah, very amusing stuff you got there. :rolleyes:

All you Petter fans keep on talking... The guy has lost "it". He had a proper C4 in Wales, which is one of his favourite rallies, and he can't even make a one stage win. It's difficult to accept but it's the truth. Or almost the truth.

.

The reason why Solberg did not win any stages was because Loeb and hirvonen were pushing very hard.

Have you ever considerd that?
30th October 2009, 17:10
J.Lindstroem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langdale Forest

The reason why Solberg did not win any stages was because Loeb and hirvonen were pushing very hard.

Im tired of those excuses.

Loeb and Hirvonen pushed hard, yes.

Why didn't he?
30th October 2009, 17:28
Langdale Forest

Because it was his first rally in the C4 on gravel.
30th October 2009, 18:02
ProRally

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomi

When J-M came to England, and Pentti started coaching him, he asked once if I know some co-driver for J-M, I suggested that Jouhki should ask Jakke Honkanen if he is interested, I dont know if they did, but anyway they did choose a Brittish guy. The basic idea was that the co-driver would be experienced and while co-drive, also at the same look that the driver dont screw up too much, in a same way Harjanne did for Tommi earlier, that was a good method, and i belive it still is.

Long time I heard Jakke's name ? How is he doing ? He was one of the really nice guys in wrc....

Probably teaching his kids.... they where doing a lot of cross country ski
30th October 2009, 18:16
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProRally

Long time I heard Jakke's name ? How is he doing ? He was one of the really nice guys in wrc....

Probably teaching his kids.... they where doing a lot of cross country ski

i guess you are right, i think he is slowing down the rally thing, maybe he is still doing some coaching, but im not sure.
4th November 2009, 17:48
Langdale Forest

Jakke Honkanen was Toni Gardemiester's co-driver. What has happend to Toni now?
4th November 2009, 18:18
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langdale Forest

Jakke Honkanen was Toni Gardemiester's co-driver. What has happend to Toni now?

Nothing much, latest what i have heard so he is trying to get a drive in s2000 cup, but can be difficult to find, he is not so young anymore.
4th November 2009, 18:29
Langdale Forest

How old is he now?
4th November 2009, 18:32
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langdale Forest

How old is he now?

not sure 33-34 i guess
4th November 2009, 18:47
Langdale Forest

Not that old.
4th November 2009, 18:59
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langdale Forest

Not that old.

Not too old normally, but now when all the current WRC teams seats are occupied, and if there is coming new teams, i have a feeling that they will use younger drivers to "build the team around", no point to take a driver who maybe has seen his best driving years already or maybe only 1-2 good years left.
If I would run a S2000 cup team, I know who I would choose, and its no one of the current drivers not Garde either.
4th November 2009, 21:32
Langdale Forest

But Gardemiester got a reasonable result in almost any WRC car.
4th November 2009, 21:49
Barreis

Unfortunately never won.. Still remember final live TV stage on New Zeland when he won third place in Cordoba WRC..
4th November 2009, 21:50
Langdale Forest

He got 2nd place in Monte Carlo and Greece in 2005.
4th November 2009, 22:08
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langdale Forest

But Gardemiester got a reasonable result in almost any WRC car.

Thats true, and he also has been very unlucky with the teams he has been in, better to wait and see if he can get somekind of program together.
4th November 2009, 22:11
Langdale Forest

He was lucky with Ford.
4th November 2009, 22:23
bluuford

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langdale Forest

How old is he now?

Tony is 34 and becomes 35 in 31th of March
4th November 2009, 22:24
Rallyper

OK, this topic is not regarding Garde, but anyway...

If I was the teamboss I wouldn´t build my team around a youngster. I guess never Ford nor Citroen did that.

So for me any team could build around Garde. He has the quality for sure. Have you seen him riding his M3 in Finnish f-cup?? Look at his home page and you´ll see a brilliant driver,as like Pg never did get a decent team to drive for. :s mokin:
4th November 2009, 22:39
noel157

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomi

Not too old normally, but now when all the current WRC teams seats are occupied, and if there is coming new teams, i have a feeling that they will use younger drivers to "build the team around", no point to take a driver who maybe has seen his best driving years already or maybe only 1-2 good years left.
If I would run a S2000 cup team, I know who I would choose, and its no one of the current drivers not Garde either.

Well Tomi, prey tell?
4th November 2009, 22:51
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallyper

OK, this topic is not regarding Garde, but anyway...

Yes is not, but better to do like this than start a new tread for every single minor issue.
4th November 2009, 22:53
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by noel157

Well Tomi, prey tell?

Who I would choose? Atkinson and Ketomaa, both bloody fast and Ketomaa gets all out from the cars quicly.
4th November 2009, 22:58
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallyper

OK, this topic is not regarding Garde, but anyway...

If I was the teamboss I wouldn´t build my team around a youngster. I guess never Ford nor Citroen did that.

So for me any team could build around Garde. He has the quality for sure. Have you seen him riding his M3 in Finnish f-cup?? Look at his home page and you´ll see a brilliant driver,as like Pg never did get a decent team to drive for. :s mokin:

I have seen live too, and its offcourse incredible stuff when he drives the M3, but the tendense seems to be that the teams prefer younger drivers, maybe because they sell more merchendise that way, dont know.
4th November 2009, 23:59
Camelopard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rallyper

If I was the teamboss I wouldn´t build my team around a youngster. I guess never Ford nor Citroen did that.

Sorry I have to disagree with you there, Citroen did build their team around a youngster by the name of Loeb.
5th November 2009, 14:14
Viking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camelopard

Sorry I have to disagree with you there, Citroen did build their team around a youngster by the name of Loeb.

Citroen build their team around Sainz and McRae, Loeb only happend to be faster than them.
5th November 2009, 14:23
Viking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomi

Who I would choose? Atkinson and Ketomaa, both bloody fast and Ketomaa gets all out from the cars quicly.

My team, Petter Solberg and Andreas Mikkelsen would be faster than your guys
catch more headlines and sell more T-shirts :D
5th November 2009, 14:26
Buzz Lightyear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomi

Thats true, and he also has been very unlucky with the teams he has been in, better to wait and see if he can get somekind of program together.

What was unlucky about his time with Ford?
5th November 2009, 14:38
I am evil Homer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking

Citroen build their team around Sainz and McRae, Loeb only happend to be faster than them.

Actually no they developed a car over many years through Bugalski and Puras, then Loeb. McRae was given a third car to try and win the Manu title...and Loeb showed them both his talents!!!
5th November 2009, 14:47
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am evil Homer

Actually no they developed a car over many years through Bugalski and Puras, then Loeb. McRae was given a third car to try and win the Manu title...and Loeb showed them both his talents!!!

Rådström also should not be forgotten, he did do good work in developing Citroen too.
5th November 2009, 14:47
Josti

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking

Citroen build their team around Sainz and McRae, Loeb only happend to be faster than them.

No, Citroën was build around Loeb, but at that time not to an extent of what we see now. As far as I remember, McRae never felt home at Citroën and even said he didn't got the attention he experienced at Ford.
5th November 2009, 14:49
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz Lightyear

What was unlucky about his time with Ford?

I was talking about Seat, Skoda and Suzuki all stopped and he was left without a drives.
5th November 2009, 14:51
Tomi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viking

My team, Petter Solberg and Andreas Mikkelsen would be faster than your guys
catch more headlines and sell more T-shirts :D

Agree about the t-shirt thing, faster? no way.
What comes to headlines, it depends where you read the headlines, if you read the papers somewhere where rally is considered a sport, propably not, but if it is somewhere where it is considered like somekind of a freak show, propably yes.

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