Sorry, but I have 5-bucks that says Champ Car does not answer the bell in 2008...

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Originally Posted by sanguin

The problem is what happens if/when honda leaves for nascar?

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Where is the evidence that Honda is going to the IRL? Marc C's infamous spy photo?? What benefit is there to Honda joining NASCAR? Honda does not believe in V8 power in it's on road products, their trucks are not very popular in their curent configuration, and they don't need NASCAR to sell Accords. They shoot for a totally different demographic than Toyota and have a totally different image than Toyota IMHO.

Toyota is trying to prove to Americans that it is an American company. Toyota is also historically very insecure for being such a powerful company. Toyota is in racing strictly for marketing. Honda historically has done it for the engineering exercise. Granted the IRL doesn't exactly fit that bill at this time, but they get their mileage out of the 500 none the less. I don't see that insecurity from Honda. They build cars in this country because it makes financial sense.

The rumoured deal for series sponsorship by Budweiser and the new revenue sharing plan will go a long way to that end, but the discussion is actually about Champcar, not the IRL.

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Originally Posted by nigelred5

Where is the evidence that Honda is going to the IRL? Marc C's infamous spy photo?? What benefit is there to Honda joining NASCAR? Honda does not believe in V8 power in it's on road products, their trucks are not very popular in their curent configuration, and they don't need NASCAR to sell Accords. They shoot for a totally different demographic than Toyota and have a totally different image than Toyota IMHO.

Toyota is trying to prove to Americans that it is an American company. Toyota is also historically very insecure for being such a powerful company. Toyota is in racing strictly for marketing. Honda historically has done it for the engineering exercise. Granted the IRL doesn't exactly fit that bill at this time, but they get their mileage out of the 500 none the less. I don't see that insecurity from Honda. They build cars in this country because it makes financial sense.

The rumoured deal for series sponsorship by Budweiser and the new revenue sharing plan will go a long way to that end, but the discussion is actually about Champcar, not the IRL.

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Budweiser? HA!

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Originally Posted by sanguin

It is a good one and an asset for CC.

IMO

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Have you ever, in your life, watched one single race on Eurosport? That is a simple question and demands only a yes or no answer.

If not, how can you say that in the face of folks like Andrewmcm who DOES watch the races on that network?

....or Mexican TV or Australian TV........assets? Baloney.

I should point out that although I bought Race Director this year, I watched CC for the last 2 seasons on Eurosport, and I was not impressed at all. Hence my remarks in that first post are based in fact and not on supposition.

Just to clear it up in case of pedantry...! ;)

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Originally Posted by Andrewmcm

Just to clear it up in case of pedantry...! ;)

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Andrew, I've gotta tell you....that made me laugh harder than just about anything I've read here in a LONG time!

:up: :up: :up:

It seems no one wants Champcar around, in some cases not even the fans, its like let it just die, so we can be heal blah blah .We all know how screw up things seem too be with cancel races, driver getting the boot for market reason, driver not been pay, teams dropout, sponser leaving, its seem each week there is some bad news coming from this forum, or others and at the sametime no one from the top seem too say anything, its kinda like they don't see it, but anyway I will wait until next season I have been doing it since 04 when the the three took over, wait and see.

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Originally Posted by mike15

America only supports the home team when they win and then only if they dominate the event.

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Tell that to Allmendinger. CCWS got lots more media attention when AJ started winning. Even when he didn't win at Edmonton and San Jose the media was quite quick to say that he would be back to win again.

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Originally Posted by mike15

You like to blame everything on Champ Car but Champ Car has brought back racing at Road America and Portland and now Laguna. Road America had a pitiful attendance and Portland will probably not make the 2008 schedule because of poor attendance. I'm sure you will make it Champ Cars fault for poor attendance at American venues BUT with Champ Car, the foreign venues do attract great fans to the venues in high numbers.

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Let's look at this a little closely, shall we?

Zolder's attendance numbers were no better than Road America or Mont-Tremblant, so toss that one. The Netherlands has very little top-level motorsport, and their brightest racing star was in the field and in championship contention. A1 had the same thing when Verstappen proved a threat to win at Zandvoort after dominating at Durban the year before. Surfers Paradise it seems is looked at as being a V8 race first CC second, and the V8s are as popular in Australia as NASCAR is in the US. What else is there, Mike? Mexico City? Sinking fast, has been since the Mexicans in both drivers and sponsors went away.

Is it CC's fault that RA and M-T only got 25-30K? No. The promoter is responsible for his attendance. But he cannot promote easily if CCWS' product sucks. That isn't rocket science.

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Originally Posted by mike15

Now why is it that Champ Car with the same ingredients have better attendance in foreign lands than in America hmmmmm?

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Because the field is full of them, and even then its hardly proven that the foreign races are better than North American ones.

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Originally Posted by mike15

America is NahSCAR land and Americans like their racing with big shiny billboards with huge numbers that go round and round. They want to sit back in their seats for 5 hours anticipating the next big crash.

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Nice. You've just proven to me you are an elitist, and those people tick me off. What happened to CART, anyways? They weren't as you put it "big shiny billboards with huge numbers that go round and round". They got famous because the bast drivers in America were there. Star power is what draws fans, and that can be either in machinery or drivers. ALMS and to a lesser extent Grand-Am works off the machinery aspect and quite successfully. CC is a spec series, which means the path to success goes through the drivers - who are roated around frequently for the next sucker with a bank account. Combine that with an arrogant attitude, jerkoff fans, a bad reputation as a business and virtually no promotion whatsoever and you go from CART in 2001 to where we are now.

Champ Car is responsible for its own success, or lack thereof. That hasn't sunk in yet to you, sanguin and the other Kalkhoven apologists. Think about this, Mike. Is CC better than it was four years ago? No, it isn't. And don't give me the victim BS either, because if you think F1 or NASCAR give a rats behind about Champ Car you are royally, badly delusional.

It was time four years ago for the amigos to get it together and begin fixing the mistakes made by the past series operators. They haven't done that. They've let problems that already existed get much worse, and that is the reason CC is in the shape it is in.

Mike, you seem to me like a reasonable, intelligent person. So, why in the heck are you stumping for the morons at CC HQ instead of standing up and barking like most of us here for them to get off their arses and fix this series? That goes to sanguin and the other Kalkhoven apologists too.

Why are we having to debate the problems? Any idiot can see them.

Sorry, but I have 5-bucks that Brent answered the bell for CC.

Couldn't agree more, Brent.

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Originally Posted by tbyars

Andrew, I've gotta tell you....that made me laugh harder than just about anything I've read here in a LONG time!

:up: :up: :up:

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Well we can't be serious all the time can we - everyone likes a laugh now and again! ;)