Jules Bianchi Suffers Severe Head Injury

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Originally Posted by MrJan

Malbec - All very valid points, but surely there isn't a reasonable excuse for not putting out a safety car to take the time to safely recover Sutil's car?

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Does the double waved yellow not have the same effect local to the accident except with less impact on the race if the drivers comply?

Also given the amount of criticism Whiting got for supposedly keeping the safety car out too long at the start of the race and the vitriol thrown at the FIA for safety changes that get in the way of 'true racing' such as tarmacing over the gravel at Parabolica how do you think audiences would react if the safety car was deployed every time a car got stranded in the gravel?

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Does the double waved yellow not have the same effect local to the accident except with less impact on the race if the drivers comply?

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Yes absolutely. If the double waved yellows are effectively observed with an enforced speed limit, then the safety car should rarely be needed except when marshals need to go onto the track itself.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Does the double waved yellow not have the same effect local to the accident except with less impact on the race if the drivers comply?

Also given the amount of criticism Whiting got for supposedly keeping the safety car out too long at the start of the race and the vitriol thrown at the FIA for safety changes that get in the way of 'true racing' such as tarmacing over the gravel at Parabolica how do you think audiences would react if the safety car was deployed every time a car got stranded in the gravel?

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Audiences? A guy is in intensive care, possibly will never wake up and certainly will never race. Audiences can go f*** themselves. Safety should never be neglected in an attempt to keep the audience happy.

Does a yellow flag do the same job? No, the safety car rules are more clearly defined and less open to interpretation so will always be safer. Do I think that the SC should be thrown every time someone is in the gravel? No. Do I think the SC should be thrown every time someone is in a narrow gravel trap and it's bucketing down with rain? Absolutely.

Bianchi was at fault for not slowing enough, I've said that on this thread several times already, but he didn't do anything different to what other people do. Yellow flags have been ignored for years, which is the fault of drivers and stewards/officials, and we all knew that cars wouldn't slow enough while Sutil's car was recovered. The SC was a very easy decision at that point in my mind, and that's not just speaking in hindsight.

There is one thing missing - common sense. Yellow flags have been ignored for years now, mainly because the bloody lot of them forgot why Riccardo Paletti died. Double yellow means 'be prepared to stop at all times', but instead of delivering a flogging to the lot, who ignored the flags, we glorify the one who offed himself while doing it.

#F1 Voice of the Fans: Hippo’s View From The Waterhole, Time To Stop The #ForzaJules Hype

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

There is one thing missing - common sense. Yellow flags have been ignored for years now, mainly because the bloody lot of them forgot why Riccardo Paletti died. Double yellow means 'be prepared to stop at all times', but instead of delivering a flogging to the lot, who ignored the flags, we glorify the one who offed himself while doing it.

#F1 Voice of the Fans: Hippo’s View From The Waterhole, Time To Stop The #ForzaJules Hype

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I agree with this actually, except maybe the bit I bolded. The drivers are under pressure to get away with as little slowing down as they can, so as not to lose time to other drivers... And it has clearly escalated too far.

I don't know when this started, but my first recollection is Mika Hakkinen in qualifying for Monaco 1999. He set pole quite controversially under yellow flags since he raised his hand while going past the yellow flags, giving the impression he was slowing when he wasn't.

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Originally Posted by rjbetty

I agree with this actually, except maybe the bit I bolded.

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*Scribbles three red crosses into the calendar*

That must be the first time you ever agreed with something I wrote. :)

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Originally Posted by MrJan

Does a yellow flag do the same job? No, the safety car rules are more clearly defined and less open to interpretation so will always be safer. Do I think that the SC should be thrown every time someone is in the gravel? No. Do I think the SC should be thrown every time someone is in a narrow gravel trap and it's bucketing down with rain? Absolutely.

The SC was a very easy decision at that point in my mind, and that's not just speaking in hindsight.

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Nonsense.

The only cars driving slowly in sc conditions are the ones stacked immediately behind the sc. The others are doing what Bianchi did, slowing down enough to pay lip service to the rules and fast enough not to lose any advantage to their competitors until they hit the pack.

In this case the sc may or may not have gone out quickly enough to collect Lewis a lap or two after sutils accident. Bianchi would still have gone through Dunlop at broadly similar speed as he did in reality and the accident would have been the same. Had the accident not happened the sauber would have been carried away before the pack had time to even form up behind the safety car. It wouldn't have affected race events one bit.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Nonsense.

The only cars driving slowly in sc conditions are the ones stacked immediately behind the sc. The others are doing what Bianchi did, slowing down enough to pay lip service to the rules and fast enough not to lose any advantage to their competitors until they hit the pack.

In this case the sc may or may not have gone out quickly enough to collect Lewis a lap or two after sutils accident. Bianchi would still have gone through Dunlop at broadly similar speed as he did in reality and the accident would have been the same. Had the accident not happened the sauber would have been carried away before the pack had time to even form up behind the safety car. It wouldn't have affected race events one bit.

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er.... Don't they all have a Delta time now a days when the SC comes out, meaning they go at the same speed as cars behind the SC?

I think the days of cars being 100% speed trying to catch the SC are gone. Something does need doing about double waved yellows

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Originally Posted by steveaki13

I think the days of cars being 100% speed trying to catch the SC are gone. Something does need doing about double waved yellows

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There is something called "Rule 60" on the Nürburgring Nordschleife. Double waved yellow means 60kph max. That would of course be difficult to gouvern, but F1 has something that could be used for a start. Double waved yellow - activate pit speed limiter - easy to gouvern, nobody could abuse it to gain time on the car in front and cars would be slowed to a somewhat safe speed. I mentioned that on one of the TJ13 podcasts weeks before Suzuka and it felt rather creepy that the very same suggestion could mean Jules wouldn't be comatose right now :S

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

There is one thing missing - common sense. Yellow flags have been ignored for years now, mainly because the bloody lot of them forgot why Riccardo Paletti died. Double yellow means 'be prepared to stop at all times', but instead of delivering a flogging to the lot, who ignored the flags, we glorify the one who offed himself while doing it.

#F1 Voice of the Fans: Hippo’s View From The Waterhole, Time To Stop The #ForzaJules Hype

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I agree mate Jules did this to himself. As badly as I feel for him and his family I have to acknowledge this. As many of you know I was involved in a motorcycle accident 10 months ago, that was legally the other guys fault. Though I am riding again, I am not, and probably never will be back to the physical health I was before the accident. It has affected my livelihood as well. But I know when I am absolutely honest with myself that I could have avoided that accident had I been more careful. Yes the guy ran a red light, but I had obscured myself from him by a car in the next lane thus obscuring my view of him. Actually I am thankful that I didn't get more seriously injured, and now ride with a heightened sense of awareness.