Federal Shutdown

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Originally Posted by Rollo

http://www.gallup.com/poll/165392/perceived-need-third-party-reaches-new-high.aspx
Amid the government shutdown, 60% of Americans say the Democratic and Republicans parties do such a poor job of representing the American people that a third major party is needed. That is the highest Gallup has measured in the 10-year history of this question. A new low of 26% believe the two major parties adequately represent Americans.
- Gallup, 14th Oct 2013

I have never voted 1 for a major political party in any election. In the Federal Election we've just had in Australia, we had 9 candidates for 9 parties in our local electorate and I voted the two majors in at 7 and 8.

I suppose that this is mainly directed at Americans, but given that Congress has collectively failed to do its job (ie government), how likely are you to vote for a third or fourth party at a future election?

If enough of you decide to vote for third and fourth parties, you can break the duopoly of selfishness that the two behemoths have. It would take a seismic shift though; is this enough of one?

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I've voted for other parties in past elections, and will continue to do so if I feel it's the best option. Unfortunately most in the US will cling to their badge of Democrat or Republican IMO. Shocking since when you talk to people very few really lean entirely one direction or the other, and quite a few in both parties are most center in views rather than left or right.

I think until we clean house and get people away from the "Us Party" vs "Them Party" attitude not much will change.

The current situation is a prime example of both parties spending a lot of time pointing fingers and placing blame, yet neither side will do much to resolve the situation. And to be honest at this point I hope neither side gives until the people in the US are really pissed off and see the truth for once. We need people that will say the things that the US voters don't want to hear, that being that we need to get our debt under control and quit screwing future generations.

Overall the US debt can be managed.... we have all the time in the world to fix it if we get it headed in the right direction. But politicians are too busy making false promises to buy votes, and voters are stupid enough to fall for it.... just like the "free" health care we are getting! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by airshifter

I've voted for other parties in past elections, and will continue to do so if I feel it's the best option. Unfortunately most in the US will cling to their badge of Democrat or Republican IMO. Shocking since when you talk to people very few really lean entirely one direction or the other, and quite a few in both parties are most center in views rather than left or right.

I think until we clean house and get people away from the "Us Party" vs "Them Party" attitude not much will change.

The current situation is a prime example of both parties spending a lot of time pointing fingers and placing blame, yet neither side will do much to resolve the situation. And to be honest at this point I hope neither side gives until the people in the US are really pissed off and see the truth for once. We need people that will say the things that the US voters don't want to hear, that being that we need to get our debt under control and quit screwing future generations.

Overall the US debt can be managed.... we have all the time in the world to fix it if we get it headed in the right direction. But politicians are too busy making false promises to buy votes, and voters are stupid enough to fall for it.... just like the "free" health care we are getting! :rolleyes:

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The problem you have, as we all do in democratic countries, is the majority of people are idiots...irrefutable fact sadly...hence there will never be any major changes. No matter what really happens on the ground, voters will fall for the same old tricks, politicians will tell the same old lies, everyone will point fingers because once again nothing is being achieved after the election, you'll have another election and start all over again...and again...and again...

I can't claim that I know more about the US political and financial situation than say someone who lives there, but what I can see from my seat is the US has so many fingers in so many pies, it has made so many commitments and promises, that in reality, I doubt anything major will actually change in the next few decades.

I'm afraid it's just more of the same at the moment, just with a new head of state and the same old idiotic, gullible voters.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

The problem you have, as we all do in democratic countries, is the majority of people are idiots...irrefutable fact sadly...hence there will never be any major changes. No matter what really happens on the ground, voters will fall for the same old tricks, politicians will tell the same old lies, everyone will point fingers because once again nothing is being achieved after the election, you'll have another election and start all over again...and again...and again...

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I don't agree that a majority of people are idiots, though we certainly have our share. It's that most people are too involved in their daily lives to follow the political arena. So long as their personal ox isn't gored, they pretty much ignore it. Politicians count on this.

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I can't claim that I know more about the US political and financial situation than say someone who lives there, but what I can see from my seat is the US has so many fingers in so many pies, it has made so many commitments and promises, that in reality, I doubt anything major will actually change in the next few decades.

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That's a pretty accurate observation. We went from somewhat isolationist pre WWll to the (currently) remaining superpower. We have our fingers in most every county's business. That is IMO a bad thing. We should be engaged in the world, but not "running" it.

THINGY THING ALERT:
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/s ... ml?hp=t1_s
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell are finalizing a deal to avert a debt default and reopen the government, capping a frantic day that had Washington bracing for an economic crisis of its own making.
The deal is essentially done, sources say, as aides for the two leaders finish drafting the legislative language Tuesday night.

- via Politico, 15th Oct 2013

There was movement in the Congress, for the word had passed around
That the time to fault the debt had got away...
Therefore, send not to know for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.

I think a credible third party for the USA would be a healthy thing. The two sides seem so entrenched that it sometimes needs a 'third way' to shake things up a bit. People deride the Lib Dems in the UK, but they've changed the direction of the Tory dominated government from what it would have otherwise been.

As ever the problem is money; sure in the UK you need money to start a political party, but in America the amounts are off the scale!

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Originally Posted by Starter

That's a pretty accurate observation. We went from somewhat isolationist pre WWll to the (currently) remaining superpower. We have our fingers in most every county's business. That is IMO a bad thing. We should be engaged in the world, but not "running" it.

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Indeed. The problem is, where do you draw the line? It seems the current and past cabinets have not known where to stop or step back and say to themselves, "we shouldn't do this". Even the mighty US has limited resources which it needs to protect/respect. This has not happened.

I've been amazed to see how the US has gone from being a creditor pre 80's / 90's to a massive debtor in the 21st century.

There are parallels I think between the situation the USA has in the world now and the situation of the UK in the past, pre-WW2 and certainly pre-WW1, as the UK at the time was a superpower, involved in everyone's business. Worked out well for a long while, but it gets unsustainable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24557469
Republican and Democratic leaders of the US Senate have struck a cross-party deal to end a partial government shutdown and raise the US debt limit.

Somehow I suspect that this whole affair is going to do three things:

1. Polarise dyed in the wool supporters of both sides even further.
2. Alienate people who might have been swinging voters.
3. Create even more people who in future will disengage from the political process.

If these three things happen, then it seems to me that the marginal and wackier fringes will make their voices even stronger because more moderate voices will have left the building. Basically this whole crisis hasn't really done much to either solve the debt crisis or the underlying toxicity of American politics other than to kick the can further down the road.

You don't need to put up with this. Change the game, vote for someone else!

C'mon, go the Whigs!*

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ty_owl.svg.png

*Other other parties like the Libertarian, Objectivist and Constitution Parties are available.

The problem the US has (and this affects the whole world economy as well) is that whatever solution/agreement they come up with now, just delays the reality that they are in trouble, they've just put it back another year or so before the process starts all over again.

What is the current US debt level, like 13 trillion or something I believe?

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

The problem the US has (and this affects the whole world economy as well) is that whatever solution/agreement they come up with now, just delays the reality that they are in trouble, they've just put it back another year or so before the process starts all over again.

What is the current US debt level, like 13 trillion or something I believe?

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Exactly how would the US ever repay this debt? If the $ wasn't the globally referenced currency, they'd really be in the doo doo.