Obama shows sense of realism

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21st September 2009, 18:35
chuck34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eki

What are they doing in Korea? There's room enough for 30000 American troops in the mainland USA.

North Korea is how big and rich compared to South Korea?

So do all issues boil down to a size and economic power p!ssing match?
21st September 2009, 18:38
Eki

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa

Lebanon wasn't a threat? The Nation state of Lebanon wasn't, but they couldn't stop Hezbollah from attacking Israeli settlements with rocket attacks. After about a year or so of this nonsense, Israel could very well claim Lebanon was a failed state and you would have to go a long way to say Lebanon was in control of its borders. Sorry, Israel was heavy handed but justified on many levels for wanting to stop terrorist attacks on its civilians. THAT is why a country has an army...to defend its territory.

Yep, that was Stalin's logic too in 1939. There had been 9000 voluntary Finnish fighters fighting against the Soviet Union less than two decades earlier and Leningrad was within artillery reach from the Finnish border:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimosodat

Israel had even less patience. They invaded Lebanon after Hezbollah had snatched just two Israeli soldiers. You can't say Hezbollah or Hamas are threats to the existence of Israel. It's just like the Soviets said to Hitler "In Finland it is - they who take action against the, friends, of the Soviet Union. They would [take action] against [our] society, against us - they would continuously, persecute us and, a great power cannot be threatened by a minor country."
21st September 2009, 18:58
Eki

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck34

So do all issues boil down to a size and economic power p!ssing match?

Much of it is about pride, yes. For example, the US could have easily taken the 9/11 attacks and absorbed them, but their pride couldn't take them. That's why they invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Turning the other cheek wasn't an option for them.
21st September 2009, 19:03
chuck34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eki

Much of it is about pride, yes. For example, the US could have easily taken the 9/11 attacks and absorbed them, but their pride couldn't take them. That's why they invaded Afghanistan and Iraq.

What? You are suggesting that we should have let 9/11 happen without doing anything? You are off your rocker.

Are you seriously suggesting that had we not done anything after 9/11 that that would have been the end of it? You don't see ANY national security issues with that what-so-ever?
21st September 2009, 19:59
Roamy

Mark,

You have to realize that these TIREs have no defense from a powerful enemy. So they are forced to get along and watch their step in all political matters. In addition they have no natural resources so they are dependent on the rest or the world for survival. They envy our way of life and are always there to drag us in the direction of socialism and power reduction policies. LIke we try and force democracy down everyone's throats. Well sadly socialism in not for all and democracy is not for all. That is why I favor bringing our war machine home to rest. I want to sell Nato the equipment and just play more golf. Take Afghanistan - all we need to do is spray the poppy fields with agent orange and be done with it. Sh!t they sprayed in on me so it should be good enough for the Afghans.
21st September 2009, 20:01
Eki

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck34

You don't see ANY national security issues with that what-so-ever?

Of course you should have improved the national security within your country, like improving border control and airline security so it would have become more unlikely to happen again. Only fools don't learn from their mistakes.
21st September 2009, 20:08
chuck34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eki

Of course you should have improved the national security within your country, like improving border control and airline security so it would have become more unlikely to happen again. Only fools don't learn from their mistakes.

Ah yes, of course. But if you advocate for border control you are labeled a racist against those poor downtroden Mexicans. And if you are for increased airline security you are called some sort of Nazi who wants to strip search grandma. It's no win.

Even at that, had all we done was tighten up security at the borders and air ports, do you really think that no one would have attacked us. The enemy we are facing is not dumb. They don't normally do things twice the same way. So we take steps to prevent the last attack and the next attack slips through our fingers. Then thousands more innocent civilians are murdered. No the only way to prevent another attack is to stop it at it's source.

Turning the other cheek only get's you slapped again. At some point you have to stop being a sucker.
21st September 2009, 20:09
Roamy

yes EKI you are right
a fool and his money are soon parted

NO MORE FOREIGN AID
NO MORE GLOBAL MILITARY BASES !!
BUY AMERICAN - F___ CHINA

At the rate we are going we are sure to be taken over by Portugal !!
21st September 2009, 20:15
Eki

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck34

Ah yes, of course. But if you advocate for border control you are labeled a racist against those poor downtroden Mexicans. And if you are for increased airline security you are called some sort of Nazi who wants to strip search grandma. It's no win.

Even at that, had all we done was tighten up security at the borders and air ports, do you really think that no one would have attacked us. The enemy we are facing is not dumb. They don't normally do things twice the same way. So we take steps to prevent the last attack and the next attack slips through our fingers. Then thousands more innocent civilians are murdered. No the only way to prevent another attack is to stop it at it's source.

Turning the other cheek only get's you slapped again. At some point you have to stop being a sucker.

Finland learnt from its mistakes, and now we have lived in peace with the Russians for over 60 years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimosodat

Quote:

Finland had, for the two next decades, a relatively high citizen participation in nationalistic activities (e.g Karelianism and Finnicization of the country and its institutions). Only the strenuous five-year period 1939–45 of total war drained excess enthusiasm.

If you quit interfering in the Middle East and the Muslim world, I'm sure they'd leave you alone too.
21st September 2009, 20:18
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck34

Even at that, had all we done was tighten up security at the borders and air ports, do you really think that no one would have attacked us. The enemy we are facing is not dumb. They don't normally do things twice the same way.

Why, then, are we told constantly by governments that al-Qaida will at some point use airliners again for attacks?

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