Rise of the Phoenix?

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Originally Posted by downtowndeco

You still see this down in the south once in a while. People who still aren't over the south losing the civil war.

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Except in this case, it was the confederate master that beat the union. And although these teams are now his slaves, someday those teams will rise up and fight that master. It's only a matter of time. When the series is healthy and making money, they will want more money and more control.

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Are you SURE about that? As I recall, the indfield is not open for the NASCAR crowd, and if so I really doubt if they draw higher numbers.

Gary

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You might be right, I was thinking TV ratings.

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Originally Posted by downtowndeco

You still see this down in the south once in a while. People who still aren't over the south losing the civil war. I'm telling you. 10 years from now some will still be clinging to hope that Gerry Forsythe will dust off the DP1's & start a new street racing series.

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and some will be thinking someone is out to get Tony George and the IRL.

There are extremist fans who will never let go of whatever side of the "split" they were on - but most of us understand it is over and it is time to move on. I understand where you are coming from but I think you are lumping far too many people into the extremist category....

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Originally Posted by Chris R

and some will be thinking someone is out to get Tony George and the IRL.

There are extremist fans who will never let go of whatever side of the "split" they were on - but most of us understand it is over and it is time to move on. I understand where you are coming from but I think you are lumping far too many people into the extremist category....

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And downtowndeco fails to recognize that his replies here consistently put him in the other extremist category.

Gary

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Originally Posted by garyshell

And don't pretend that your missives here aren't the equivalent of the Yankees gloating over the fact that they forced the Confederates to surrender.

Gary

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GMA break. Some of these guys come in here trying to do nothing other than poking the snake with a stick & we're not suppossed to respond or comment?

You've most certainly have not looked the other way or let things go when you've disagreed with anything I've posted. Every time I've got to hear about it. You should follow your own advise and allow others to have an opinion. Oh, I forgot. As long as it's "TG is an idiot grandson" it's OK, right?

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Originally Posted by downtowndeco

GMA break. Some of these guys come in here trying to do nothing other than poking the snake with a stick & we're not suppossed to respond or comment?

You've most certainly have not looked the other way or let things go when you've disagreed with anything I've posted. Every time I've got to hear about it. You should follow your own advise and allow others to have an opinion. Of that's right, as long as it's "TG is an idiot grandson" it's OK, right?

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Did I say you shouldn't respond? No. I said don't pretend that your attitude here is absolutely no different from those you denigrate. You are just on the opposite side. You do your fair share (or I dare say more than fair share) of prodding that snake at every opportunity.

Yes I called him an idiot grandson, I thought that in 1996 and think so today. But, if you look at my replies in threads here you will see I am just as critical of the CCF crowd.

Gary

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Originally Posted by indycool

Even Formula One couldn't sustain itself here, drawing less than half the crowd of the Indianapolis 500 and Brickyard 400 at the same facility.

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Garyshell states that the NASCAR race closes the infield. How did the F1 seating differ from the Indy 500 configuration?

I remember that F1 was sold out the first couple of years at Indy and I beleive that NASCAR still sells out too. When is the last time the Indy 500 officially (or truthfully) sold out?

Rex, the NASCAR race at Indianapolis has no GA tickets in the infield. The Indianapolis 500 does. The Indianapolis 500 has ALWAYS had a higher attendance than the Brickyard 400 and that is ONE of the reasons. The place has about 260-270,000 seats for those races.

For the F1 race, MOST of the seats were used, but T3 oval and well into the north short chute were blocked off because it was nowhere near the course and didn't apply. Temporary seating was built at the esses in the infield. The race drew an estimated 100-125,000 after a bigger gush (150,000 or so) the first year. Ticket prices were pretty much the same as the other two races, with some seats better for the road course and some not as good and prices showing those. At the attendance estimated, the Speedway was STILL among the top three in F1 attendance every year.

As is the case with many Sprint Cup races these days with the big TV contract, a look at the Brickyard 400 crowd the past few years would NOT indicate a sellout for some time.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Nobody would be talking about starting another series if the IRL was putting out a quality product.

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QFT! :up:

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Originally Posted by indycool

I didn't like to see the Trans Am go away and I would not like to see the Atlantics diminished or go away. Surfers is thousands of miles away on a channel I don't get, they apparently want to focus on this as a North American series and I have no idea of the financial feasibility of the deal.

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C'mon, Trans-AM was an entirely different situation. Like Roger Elliott's North American Super Touring Car Championship in 95-96, it eventually succommed to NASCAR'S wish to dominate stock car/saloon car racing in the US. Leveraging corporate sponsors and factory participation.

Atlantic's on the other hand has survived as the premier development racing series in North America. It now sits as the top rung of the Mazda ladder.

The Surfers TV coverage this weekend just demonstrates the lack of respect ICS gives it as an international motorsport event. These types of events are critical to the global branding of IndyCar and the sponsors it supposedly relies on for survival revenue. Even the current champion is from Australasia. Go figure.....