People Power

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13th December 2011, 19:17
ArrowsFA1

Let's make it simple.

Do we believe that the concentration of wealth in fewer & fewer hands is a good thing for all of us?

Yes/No
13th December 2011, 19:32
ioan

No.
13th December 2011, 19:41
race aficionado

No
13th December 2011, 19:42
chuck34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Let's make it simple.

Do we believe that the concentration of wealth in fewer & fewer hands is a good thing for all of us?

Yes/No

Wow way to dodge the questions I asked you. Personally I would answer neither yes or no. There is no black and white. Concentration of wealth is not necessarily good for all of us, nor is it bad for all of us.

But let me ask my usual question in just a slightly different way. Let's agree for the sake of argument that concentration of wealth in a few hands is a bad thing, what do you propose be done about it? How does the concentration of wealth prevent you personally from "getting ahead" in life?
13th December 2011, 19:43
chuck34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

No.

Why? How does it effect your life? What is preventing you from "getting ahead"?
13th December 2011, 19:43
chuck34

Quote:

Originally Posted by race aficionado

No

Why? How does it effect your life? What is preventing you from "getting ahead"?
13th December 2011, 19:51
ArrowsFA1

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck34

Wow way to dodge the questions I asked you.

Only because we're going over the same ground time and time again.

This thread began with the Occupy protests and they essentially come down to the question I've asked, which shouldn't be a hard one to answer.
13th December 2011, 20:06
chuck34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Only because we're going over the same ground time and time again.

This thread began with the Occupy protests and they essentially come down to the question I've asked, which shouldn't be a hard one to answer.

I thought we were actually starting to get somewhere. You specifically said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Access to resources, whether that be money, health, education, employment. As those resources become concentrated in fewer hands then they become less accessible.

And I asked the follow-up:

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck34

Let's be more specific on this.

Money ... As I asked before, do you believe economics to be a zero sum game? Do you believe that in order for someone to have $1 more that he/she must steal that dollar from someone else?

Health ... Is there more or less access to basic healthcare now than 50 years ago? How does someone having more money mean that someone else necessarily has less access to healthcare?

Education ... Are there more people going to college now than 50 years ago? Are there more people graduating high school now or then?

Employment ... Yes we are in a recession now so the numbers will be skewed a bit, but generally how does someone being x% wealthier than I am prevent me from obtaining a job?

And instead of answering those specific questions, you come back with a red herring of a question. It has no answer other than "no, concentration of wealth is not good for ALL of us". But that is a dumb question that misses the real questions/issues facing the world. Wealth will always be concentrated in the hands of a statistical few, wether that be a few hundred or a few thousand really doesn't change anything in the grand scheme of things. There is no way to expand weath beyond a few single digit percentage points of the population in a human society. Pure communism/socialism will not work for a myriad of reasons.

So why don't we get back to the issues at hand. What is stopping someone who is poor from "getting ahead"? Let's try to identify those issues and discuss solutions to overcoming them.
13th December 2011, 20:06
race aficionado

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck34

Why? How does it effect your life? What is preventing you from "getting ahead"?

Even for me, a person that has, to use your term -"gotten ahead"- is suffering from the growing social/economic gap and the concentration of wealth in fewer & fewer hands.

Why you ask? Because I see many of my fellow human beings fighting a loosing battle - and I don't want to regurgitate what I have already reiterated a couple of times on this thread - but I believe that we are not alone in this planet, there is a growing human consciences around the globe that tells us that if we are to survive, we are to help each other in any way we can - and that does not necessarily mean handouts to those "lazy bums " out there - it is more serious than that and we should also take the streets, voice our discontent and make a political difference with our "people power" power.

You have chosen to live in what I think is an isolated world where you are very proud of what you have done with your life, and where you believe that if you have achieved it, everyone else that wants to do so will also succeed as you did - and I say to you: good for you. You are one of the "successful" ones.

:s mokin:
13th December 2011, 20:15
chuck34

Quote:

Originally Posted by race aficionado

Even for me, a person that has, to use your term -"gotten ahead"- is suffering from the growing social/economic gap and the concentration of wealth in fewer & fewer hands.

How specifically are you suffering?

Quote:

Originally Posted by race aficionado

Why you ask? Because I see many of my fellow human beings fighting a loosing battle - and I don't want to regurgitate what I have already reiterated a couple of times on this thread - but I believe that we are not alone in this planet, there is a growing human consciences around the globe that tells us that if we are to survive, we are to help each other in any way we can

So if you see all this human suffering among your fellow human beings, and you are one who has "gotten ahead", what are YOU doing to change the situation for those suffering? Are you lowering your wages, while raising that of your employees? Are you completely paying for your empolyee's healthcare? Do you pay for them to go to school? How are you lowering their suffering?

And the big question ... What right do you have to tell anyone else that those things are what they must do?

Quote:

Originally Posted by race aficionado

- and that does not necessarily mean handouts to those "lazy bums " out there - it is more serious than that and we should also take the streets, voice our discontent and make a political difference with our "people power" power.

So if it isn't handouts, what is it? What does voicing your discontent to those who have no power over you accomplish? What political difference do you hope to make by protesting those who are not political players?

Quote:

Originally Posted by race aficionado

You have chosen to live in what I think is an isolated world where you are very proud of what you have done with your life, and where you believe that if you have achieved it, everyone else that wants to do so will also succeed as you did - and I say to you: good for you. You are one of the successful ones.

It sounds to me that you are also one who has succeeded. So I ask you what makes us special? Why were we able to become successful, but others are not? What barriers are in their way? How do we remove those barriers?

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