You are replying to something what was not said. Read those posts again, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by bassist
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You are replying to something what was not said. Read those posts again, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by bassist
Sorry Mirek- don't think I have- would you "go to a dangerous place"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Hi,
you can see a lot of photos at rally3.de
http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...1860293881.jpg
http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...1565556092.jpg
http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...1676578383.jpg
http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...1253678828.jpg
http://www.rally3.de/components/com_...1637238979.jpg
Karsten
Difficult discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by bassist
I always have the feeling that the people who are standing at ridiculously dangerous places (outside of fast corner, close to road after jump, close to a big concrete pole that can fall, etc.) are the ones who don't go to rallies often. They've never seen how a car behaves when the driver loses control. What can happen to the environment. Very unpredictable. I don't even like to stand in some of the 'safe' zones, because I find them too dangerous myself. Every spectator should look after its own risk management, really. But when the knowledge and the experience isn't there about what can happen during a crash, stupid things happen.
And that's when the marshalls are having a crap time. The spectators who don't know what they are doing, are just mad because they can't stand where they want to stand. Experienced spectators can't handle marshall instructions (is my experience), because they find that they KNOW what they're doing. And to be honest... I've met some marshalls who really don't know what they are doing themselves. Who place spectators in really dangerous spots.
In 2011 two people died in Condroz rally in Belgium. A Mitsubishi hit a bridge in a village, and the stones from the bridge were smashed into a 'safe' zone. That zone was at the outside of the corner. The casualties were part of the same family that lived in the neighbourhood, not people who go to rallies that often. In that same rally Freddy Loix got so mad at the behaviour of some of the spectators that he got out of his car to shout at them. With reason.
The only way to get spectators to behave, is unfortunately to cancel more stages during a rally. Then the group dynamic might start to work, and experienced spectators can give a little bit of social control, if you get what I mean. But that's really difficult. I drove in the CC-car (before the 000, 00 and 0) in Rallye Luxembourg, the year the father of Peter Bijvelds died there. The CC-car is the car that is only there to check the safety. So organisers should listen to it. I remember one stage where not all the marshalls were on their position, with 5 minutes before the start. There were spectators on the road. We advised the organisation to delay or cancel the stage, because it was just dangerous. But the start went on as planned.
On that stage, father Bijvelds died. But that's another story. I still think about that a lot.
That's exactly where You are missing the point - asking me about my personal choice. It's completely irrelevant what I would do. It's fact that people tend to move away from very strict places to anywhere they have more freedom. That's why super strict spectator areas make rally safety no better. Hope You understand now.Quote:
Originally Posted by bassist
Yes, it is a very difficult discussion, but I still think we have a duty to ourselves to be safe. Yes- I agree if more stages were cancelled on the advice of the Spectator Sweeper Vehicle, perhaps people would take note ( oh, and I wonder how much alcohol plays a part in all of this?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Integrale
And to finish that story about father Bijvelds...
When we were driving that particular stage we came upon a downhill straight in the forest. A big gap to the left, and to the right a bank with trees. In the roadbook there was a chicane drawn on that particular section. The organisation had painted on the road where the hay barrels should be. They stood there, by the side of the road, but they weren't in position. WITH 5 MINUTES TO SPARE!
So, the marshall there had just arrived, and he didn't know anything about the situation. We asked the organisation and helped him put the barrels into place. At that spot, Bijvelds went off the road, because that particular chicane wasn't in his notes. It wasn't in recce too, of course. Apparently, his roadbook also didn't have the word 'CHICANE' in it on that spot, like it had on other places where there was a chicane. But all the other drivers had the chicane in their notes...
It doesn't have much to do with spectator safety itself, but it shows that marshalls aren't faultless too. Or the organisation. That stage should've been cancelled.
@bassist. Of course the marshalls are just doing what they are asked to do (some are friendly, others very unpolite), It's normal that spectators search other ways to see the cars (thats why they attend the rally). You And you cannot expect all spectators to be smart and know what risks there are... This issue is seen in many events.