People Power

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
- First Amendment to the US Constitution

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.
- Article 19, The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Anyone can protest on anything they feel like; that includes protesting against private enterprises. At law, anthonyvop and 555-04Q2's assertion is false.

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Rollo, at least you are thinking ... a bit. Who exactly are these people protesting? Government, or private business?

That has been one of my points all along. I may actually agree with some of the things these protestors are talking about. But they are protesting the wrong people.

I took a few days off to see where this would go. And to no great surprise, it's just gone in circles.

What do people want. Do you want someone (government, corporations, who?) to just give you a job? What exactly do you want? How do you realize a more "equal" society?

Also Arrows, how do you know what the cause and effect is in your more "equal" means more mobility? Couldn't it be the exact opposite? Couldn't it be that people have generally become more complacent with being "lower" on the social ladder, but those on the top keep striving for more?

Again, correlation does not equal causation.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Anyone can protest on anything they feel like; that includes protesting against private enterprises. At law, anthonyvop and 555-04Q2's assertion is false.

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You cannot protest against someone if they have done nothing wrong to you.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Rollo, at least you are thinking ... a bit. Who exactly are these people protesting? Government, or private business?

That has been one of my points all along. I may actually agree with some of the things these protestors are talking about. But they are protesting the wrong people.

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Like like like like like like like like

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Also Arrows, how do you know what the cause and effect is in your more "equal" means more mobility? Couldn't it be the exact opposite? Couldn't it be that people have generally become more complacent with being "lower" on the social ladder, but those on the top keep striving for more?

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Firstly it's not my more equal means more mobility; it's evidence based research by The Equality Trust and One Society among others :) Their evidence is available for anyone to read.

Is there evidence available to support the idea that complacency is the reason for increasing inequality?

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Firstly it's not my more equal means more mobility; it's evidence based research by The Equality Trust and One Society among others :) Their evidence is available for anyone to read.

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I have read those. Very early on I debunked your Equality Trust link as mostly recording reporting differences (ie people in the US are more likely to self report mental illness than many other nations). And your One Society link just has a bunch of statistics about how big the pay difference is (which no one is disputing), but no real analysis (that I can see, perhaps you can point me to it) as to WHY there is a pay difference. I will say that at least they have some propose solutions, that you quoted basically verbatum, and I tentatively agreed with you on earlier. But you have yet to go into detail on who would be responsible for the committees, what enforcement mechanisims will be put in place, etc.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Is there evidence available to support the idea that complacency is the reason for increasing inequality?

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Just as much evidence that is abailable to support the idea that inequality is the reason for the lack of mobility.

Please explain how someone being many times richer than I am, stops me from becoming rich. Or how 50 years ago when someone was "only" 50x more wealthy it was "easier" for me to move up. That makes no sence, unless you believe that economics is a zero sum game.

Is that really the root of your beliefs, that in order for someone to earn a dollar more that he has to have somehow stolen that dollar from you?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Yes, a free society — in which one has the right to protest against a private company. You know, that sort of free society, as opposed to the one with restrictions, which you have also advocated above. Still, you are someone who either committed an illegal act or lied about having done so, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised at such inconsistency.

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I stand corrected.

I should have said you have a Legal Right to protest a private company but DO NOT have a moral right to protest a private entity unless it has violated your rights. And not giving you a job is not a violation of your rights.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Just as much evidence that is abailable to support the idea that inequality is the reason for the lack of mobility.

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Great. Where is it?

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Great. Where is it?

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Exactly where your evidence is.

Correlation is not causation. Do you not understand that concept?

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Exactly where your evidence is.

Correlation is not causation. Do you not understand that concept?

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I'll play:

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(though correlation is necessary for linear causation in the absence of any third and countervailing causative variable, and can indicate possible causes or areas for further investigation; in other words, correlation can be a hint)

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