WRC Rally Argentina 2012

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29th April 2012, 23:03
tfp

Quote:

Originally Posted by EightGear

Unbelievable.... Sordo deserved it. Retiring on the last stage while he survied all stages... Rally 2 is ugly.

There is a lot of talk about superally or rally2, I am for and against now. Its a bit silly that most of the points scorers have returned under rally2 rules, but on the other hand, without these there wouldnt be many WRC cars left in competition if they werent brought back in rally 2 rules!
I have always been the first to complain about rally2, but when they took it away at MC, I wanted it back...Not only because JML crashed!
Maybe some kind of comprimise, they only score half points when returning under rally2 rules or something would be good.
29th April 2012, 23:09
Plan9

Well at least Salazar finished without Rally2.
29th April 2012, 23:11
EightGear

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimviii

like a lot Mikkelsens pace against the benchmark Ogier.I d like to see them at all remaining rallies for 2012.Hope vw have seen the obvious,and dont spoiled with made in germany drivers.

I would like to remember you Kevin Abbring is Dutch and not German.
And don't forget Abbring was faster than Ogier a few times in Mexico in only his third rally ever in a 4WD car. He has lots of potential and much less experience than Mikkelsen.
29th April 2012, 23:13
pettersolberg29

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfp

There is a lot of talk about superally or rally2, I am for and against now. Its a bit silly that most of the points scorers have returned under rally2 rules, but on the other hand, without these there wouldnt be many WRC cars left in competition if they werent brought back in rally 2 rules!
I have always been the first to complain about rally2, but when they took it away at MC, I wanted it back...Not only because JML crashed!
Maybe some kind of comprimise, they only score half points when returning under rally2 rules or something would be good.

I think the idea behind Rally 2 is good; i.e. allowing cars to return to the competition. In some instances it provides great excitement e.g. Petter in Portugal, and also the chance to gain experience for young drivers, while for others it provides a second chance if there is a technical issue or something which isn't their fault. However the application of the theory into practise is ugly. I personally have no better solution though so would be hypocritical to criticise it!

It basically depends on what people prioritise as the most important thing in the WRC - pace or consistency. In my opinion pace is more important in modern rallying, and therefore when Petter has been possibly the fastest driver in the last 2 rallies I don't feel as bad for him to win stages to claw his way back up the leaderboard with Superrally penalties because he has the pace to win, and therefore getting 0 points seems harsh, even if fair. However sometimes drivers simply benefit from other problems when under Superrally, shown no pace at all and still end up in the points e.g. Novikov this weekend. Meanwhile Mikkelsen and Sordo get no points even though they lasted much longer. A simple solution would be to add Superrally to the final leg too, or possibly add some sort of rule like you have to win a stage or be top 3 in a stage or something to be eligible for Superrally points?

That's my thinking... out loud!
29th April 2012, 23:14
pettersolberg29

Quote:

Originally Posted by EightGear

I would like to remember you Kevin Abbring is Dutch and not German.
And don't forget Abbring was faster than Ogier a few times in Mexico in only his second rally ever in a 4WD car. He has lots of potential and much less experience than Mikkelsen.

I believe dimvii was referring to the rumours that VW want a German driver such as Wiegand or Gassner in their car as opposed to Abbring or Mikkelsen.
29th April 2012, 23:20
J4MIE

Superrally was removed from the final leg when drivers used it in order to win championships having lost a lot of time on the last stage, they retired and "only" lost 5 minutes.

I think the JWRC was decided this way once, and also the BRC in 2007? after someone burst the radiator and lost 15-20 minutes and had to stop (or realised, and stopped) on the way back to the finish in Cardiff.

I think that what I would like to see is what they had the first year it was introduced - ie you can go back out and get the milage or test the car or whatever, but not be included in the results at the end of the day, simple. Not enough WRC cars finishing at the end of the event for you? Tough, that's how it is.
29th April 2012, 23:40
pettersolberg29

Quote:

Originally Posted by J4MIE

Superrally was removed from the final leg when drivers used it in order to win championships having lost a lot of time on the last stage, they retired and "only" lost 5 minutes.

I think the JWRC was decided this way once, and also the BRC in 2007? after someone burst the radiator and lost 15-20 minutes and had to stop (or realised, and stopped) on the way back to the finish in Cardiff.

I think that what I would like to see is what they had the first year it was introduced - ie you can go back out and get the milage or test the car or whatever, but not be included in the results at the end of the day, simple. Not enough WRC cars finishing at the end of the event for you? Tough, that's how it is.

How about remove Superrally from the last rally of the season to avoid that problem? My opinion is that Superrally is needed as without it the manufacturers wouldn't have anywhere near as much coverage, especially if JML or Petter bin it first stage for example and then are no longer in the 'competition'. It's not very attractive to the people who make decisions, for want of a better phrase, when your cars could be out of the rally and therefore the spotlight after only 1km of a 400km rally! And for fans it's rubbish too - if I pay loads of money to see a rally abroad and then by Sunday none of the 4 manufacturer cars are running competitively I'll feel robbed... while Superrally is a very impure and ugly thing, it is also generally a positive idea I think.
30th April 2012, 00:32
J4MIE

Well, there are plenty of other motorsports out there? Why mess with the whole ethos of rallying?

Who are Ford to say that rallies shouldn't be run if they can't get a good result?
30th April 2012, 01:29
pettersolberg29

Quote:

Originally Posted by J4MIE

Well, there are plenty of other motorsports out there? Why mess with the whole ethos of rallying?

Who are Ford to say that rallies shouldn't be run if they can't get a good result?

Trouble is it's that attitude which almost killed the sport. Rallying is getting less and less popular and finally there's a chance it might be on the up with VW and hopefully one other manufacturer coming in, and to just sit back and not try and adapt rallying into the modern times is short-sighted and inevitably the wrong decision I think. You say there are plenty of other motorsports, and that's as may be, but personally I want more competition within the WRC. The fact that Ford and BMW have already moved into other motorsports i.e. Touring Cars suggests that the whole 'ethos of rallying' is no longer an attractive proposition?

As for the second question, I'm not sure what you mean.
30th April 2012, 01:46
Xsara Fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by KKS

OK. Two different belts, we know that an alternator belt was broke at Sordo's Fiesta. So theoretically he can drive on a battery charge this 4km? But he don't do this, why?

In Fiesta WRC the same belt works with alternator and with water pump.

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