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People usually do what is in their best interests so what will happen will happen. The point is that it is unlikely that TG will suffer a loss here. Anyhow, here is a link to Robin Miller's latest on what happens (or not) next:
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...-frustrations/
The Rahals weigh in on the talks:http://www.dispatch.com/live/content...S.html?sid=101
Some quotes:
Then there is this update from Curt Cavin of the Indy StarQuote:
Reports in the past week have indicated the unwieldy 13-year run of competing open-wheel racing series in the United States might be close to ending, with a merger or, perhaps more likely, an absorption of Champ Car by the Indy Racing League.
Bobby Rahal is a co-owner of Hilliard-based Rahal Letterman Racing, an IRL team, and a three-time champion in Champ Car. His reaction? Call him back when it's a fact.
"This is only about the 15th time or so this kind of talk has happened over, what, the last 13 years?" Rahal said yesterday. "So when I see it, I'll believe it."
This time, it seems more serious. His son Graham Rahal, preparing for his second season as a Champ Car driver with the Newman-Haas-Lanigan team, has picked up on the vibes.
"Something is going to give this year," Graham said. "Call me crazy, but I truly believe this is the last year of the split."
There's a chance it could happen in time for this season if a few hoops can be negotiated. The IRL season opens in late March and Champ Car in mid-April.
For instance, it has been reported that the IRL would like to include on its schedule this year at least three Champ Car road races: the long-running Long Beach Grand Prix; a race in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada; and one in Surfers Paradise, Australia. But there is a conflict with the Long Beach event April 20 and the IRL race on April 19 in Motegi, Japan.
That's why IRL founder Tony George traveled to Japan last weekend to persuade officials of Honda -- the sole engine provider for IRL and promoters of the Motegi race -- to move the date. Preliminary reports indicated the meeting went well.
Another problem might be the dissolution of Champ Car. The series has existing contracts for other races this year, including the Cleveland Grand Prix, a fixture since 1982.
All of the races won't be taken in by the IRL, which has 16 events, including at Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course in Lexington on July 20.
But a melding of the series could generate a starting field of 24 cars or more. As incentive, George offered Champ Car team owners free IRL-type chassis and Honda engines for the coming season, plus the guaranteed $1.2 million that existing IRL teams will get this year, as long as the Champ Car teams agree to stay at least two seasons.
"I think (the merger) eventually is going to happen, one way or the other," Bobby Rahal said. "I mean, if I was a team owner in Champ Car, how could I depend on that series?"
Even his son can see the writing on the pit wall.
"I used to say specifically that I wanted Champ Car to live and I wanted the IRL to die off, but the truth is, the IRL isn't going to die off because they've got the Indy 500," Graham Rahal said. "Right now, the way I look at it we need to have one series, whatever way we can achieve that."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Cavin
Probably true, Starter. Think they'll try to get things quited down first.
This comes from an Edmonton radio station.....ugh......
http://www.630ched.com/news/news_xml...news_local.cfm
This isn't about lawyers acting honorably, it's about the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
If CC goes bankrupt, US legal precedent would make it extremely difficult (my guess is "nearly impossible") for those put out by ChampCar's failure to sustain viable lawsuits against the IRL or Honda.
Sure, there are caveats. For instance, if there is real, provable, pre-meditated, documented, complicity by the IRL or Honda to defraud ChampCar's creditors, there "may" be some way for the creditors to go after them. Surprisingly, even that is not guaranteed because recent Supreme Court sentiment suggests that the fraud hurdle is EXTREMELY high.
Yes, bad lawyers can make life hell for individuals and small companies. But big companies usually swat away that sort of thing without very little bother. The lawyers for ChampCar's creditors could act as nasty and underhanded as they like. It probably won't matter, because if CC files for bankruptcy, outside some extraordinary circumstances, the courts just don't let creditors go after other companies for losses incurred by another company's bankruptcy.
The IRL's negotiating to buy assets from a nearly insolvent company doesn't come close to reaching the threshold for fraud. Because it isn't fraud, it's business. Failing companies do all kinds of deals to stay afloat. There are limits. ChampCar's owners couldn't just sell off everything of value, pocket the money and declare bankruptcy. Well, they could, but the courts would own their asses and probably put them on the hook personally for the creditor's losses. For rich guys like Forsythe and Kalkhoven, a breech of that corporate shield would be the last thing they should be willing to risk.
The only third parties that "might" be in for some serious legal trouble would be Forsythe and Kalkhoven. They should be protected by their layers upon layers of LLC's. But it's possible that they may have made done something stupid. They could have used personal funds to pay for stuff, or made commitments to creditors outside their corporate protection. Since both of them are worth a ton of money, if that happened the creditors might be able to wrangle some money out of them.
Again, I'm no lawyer. But in my experience, Honda and the IRL would have almost no legal worries over ChampCar bankruptcy. Forsythe and Kalkhaven "might", but considering how they were very successful businessman before they ever saw a race car, my guess would be that both of them are very well insulated against any legal action.
Well Dalon,
I am willing to bet that Champ Car/OWRS is heading for Bankruptcy, unless Gerry Forsythe decides to buy out the other owners.
I cannot see any other outcome in 2008. My opinion of course.
FlatChat, you seem to have a firm grip on reality so how did you get mixed up in all of this? The final drum roll is about to start. Get ready for the final dance of the Penguins.
I think what might happen next is that both series will come out with a statement that they couldn't work out the issues for 2008, and instead will now concentrate on 2009.
Note to Dr. Jack Miller: Congratulations! Your thread just went over 1000 entries. What are you going to do now? When you wish upon a star...
Oh, sorry, got carried away there for a sec. We haven't heard from you in quite a while, Dr. Jack Miller. What do you think of these recent events?
ChaimWitz,
I work in Investment Banking and my training as an Accounting and Finance major has defined the view I tend to take on any business. It has to be a viable proposition.
I look at OWRS/Champ Car as a business that in 2004 had moderate potential for success in it's field. Not huge potential, but moderate, given the economic climate at that time and the prognosis for the future.
I tried to get my Bank(Top tier US house) involved in the series in 2004. I was a fan and our marketing department were interested. However, that did not work out for one reason or another.
Anyway, since early 2006 the series has taken a turn for the worst. On balance, the positive decisions have been overwhelmed by the negative ones.
I have followed the series decline and based on what I do know, I am able to deduce by logical inference using my business acumen, that it is in deep financial trouble.
At this stage the only way OWRS will survive, is if someone decides to donate several hundred million dollars to keep it going. Unfortunately for us fans, I am struggling to see who will step forward and be so charitable towards OWRS.
The only thing that will save Champ Car is charity, because as a viable business it has failed!
FlatChat, Thanks. What you wrote sums it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlatChatRacer
Hey, I just realized Sanguin never got back to us all to share the business premise and viability of ChampCar going forward. Hmm, I wonder why? It seems that he must be distracted. Perhaps this item from Pressdog explains it:
February 13, 2008
Doctors Report Alarming Increase in Swallowed Tongues, "Spaz Attacks"
Emergency rooms in the greater Indianapolis area have been flooded by a an outbreak of oddities according to multiple sources inside the medical community.
"This morning we had seven swallowed tongues," said one intern. "That's just *$%#@ed up. I mean, what would make someone swallow their tongue?"
Further investigation revealed a litany of bizarre events. Among the things reported in the greater Indy area:
16 spaz attacks
11 knipshun fits
9 cases of the vapors
21 incidents of sustained black flashes
6 life-threatening hyper ventilations
20 cases of uncontrolled frothing at the mouth
7 case of patients choking on their own vomit
4 cases of patients "nearly ****ting themselves to death"
15 cases of spontaneous loss of bladder control
Perhaps the most alarming was what doctors called "the birth of seven cows" in their emergency rooms.
"I'm not kidding," said a distraught E.R. doctor. "This woman came in and she was obviously in labor. Next thing I knew someone screamed 'she's having a cow' and, bam, there it was on the floor. A Holstein. She named it Kevin. Then it got really weird 20 minutes later when a 24-year-old man wearing an IndyCar series T-shirt came in -- and had an even bigger cow."
The cow birthing prompted the chief of medicine at a Indy hospital to declare it "the ***** thing I've ever seen."
The IndyCar T-shirt turned out to be the tip that investigators needed to make some sense of out of the bizarre events.
"Turns out all these people who were having knipshuns and frothing at the mouth and flopping around the floor like fish were open-wheel racing fans," said Lt. Peter Dormster of the Indy police. "We got a couple of Champ Car fans in isolation right now. Wearing paper suits."
Dormster explained that "paper suits" are literally jail jumpsuits made out of paper. Since the suit will tear easily, it cannot be used to hang yourself. "All we gotta hear is 'if this is true, I may hang myself' and we have their shoelaces, belts and they're stripped and put into paper suits."
"When we suggested that everyone take a break from the online news sites, blogs and forums -- just put down the Internet and slowly back away -- they became wildly violent," Dormster said. "We had to Taser a few of them. It was tense there for a while."
Wild rumors also circulated that some mainstream Indy media reported they were "six to nine inches shorter" recently. "We looked into it," said one medical professional. "Turns out it wasn't that big of a deal. They'd just been scooped repeatedly. They should grow out of it eventually."