People Power

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Originally Posted by Rollo

All money is a reflection of the goods and services being produced by an economy (or borrowed from someone else). Goods and services can be produced by either people working in government or the private sector.

Quoted for truth:


Theoretically if what Mr Riebe said was true, then in a totally statist economy, nothing at all would have been produced at all. Are we therefore to take it that this magically appeared from nowhere?

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By exactly the same token, all money that flows into corporations derives originally from the public, in one way or another.
Which comes from wages paid by corporations or small business, unless it is welfare money paid by the government which is taken from corporations and the general public.

All monies paid to government employees is taken from corporations or the publc via taxes.

The U.S. Government has zero money. All money comes from taxes.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

That's disappointing because it appears as if you're looking at things from the narrow perspective of your own situation which is, undoubtedly a successful one and credit to you for that.

You appear to argue that everyone has the same chance of moving up the ladder and that is certainly the idea behind equality of opportunity but the fact is as income differences have widened, social mobility has slowed.

Put simply the opportunity for people to do as you've done is decreasing because of inequality in society.

Do you not see this as a problem because you've already climbed the ladder?

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As I said (call me mean, selfish, uncaring, stubborn, it does not bother me) I still don't see a "problem". People make what they want of themselves and they can't blame others for their situation. If you want something, it IS obtainable if you aim for it and stick to your guns. Protesting in a park will not get you up any ladder, it will merely put you 1 day further behind the others that ARE trying to improve their lives.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

I agree. You're happy, 555's happy. There is no problem from your own individual perspective.

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Yes, because some of us got off our backsides and did something about it :)

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I can't seem to stress enough that, again, you seem not to have in you the ability to understand that not everyone wants to follow exactly your path; that those who protest are not all lazy by any means; and that in these little stories you tell about your own life, you are, I hate to tell you, far from exceptional, yet you bring them out as though they ought to be incredible revelations for those of us whose opinions are to the left of your own.

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No BD, I am merely pointing out that if these people who are unhappy got off their ar$e$ they may actually achieve something for themselves. Set a goal and go get it. They may not become CEO's, top level managers, business owners, billionaires etc but they can improve their lives in a number of ways, not just with money or company positions, but with their general quality of life.

I don't understand what is so hard to understand about getting things done for oneself instead of b!tch!ng about how it is someone else's fault :crazy:

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

The U.S. Government has zero money. All money comes from taxes.

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Correct :up: And to make things worse, 99% of governments around the world are in debt up to their ears.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

What do you advocate? Banning them from doing so?

I would add that good songs about hedge funds and derivative trading are few in number. So are good songs from any of the artists you mention.

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Absolutely. Watch the headlines today. "Rudy slams Bono for populism, insists on shutting him up."

I find it interesting, though, that these people went all the way to the upper steps of the social ladder and now criticise the modern day vices and problems standing on piles of money.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

We are discussing the economics and Jobs....Not some silly, altruistic, Ideal spewed forth by some one who wants to appear superior by appearing all Touchy feely.

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In what sense is mention of the fact that success is not just defined by money silly or altruistic?

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

The old rules no longer apply.

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:up:

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

As I said (call me mean, selfish, uncaring, stubborn, it does not bother me) I still don't see a "problem". People make what they want of themselves and they can't blame others for their situation. If you want something, it IS obtainable if you aim for it and stick to your guns. Protesting in a park will not get you up any ladder, it will merely put you 1 day further behind the others that ARE trying to improve their lives.

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I still think you're looking at this from a far too narrow, individual level. Those protesting in a park do want sometiing, and not just for themselves - greater equality, rather than increasing inequality. It is obtainable and they are trying to do something about it.

Meanwhile, elsewhere people are still trying to "make what they want of themselves" but the evidence shows that increasing inequality makes it increasingly difficult for them to do so. That doesn't stop them trying but it does make it less and less likely they will succeed.

Evidence also shows that in the last 30yrs a smaller gap between rich and poor means a happier, healthier, and more successful population as a whole. I'm bemused why people are against closing this gap given the benefits for all of us.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

:up:


I still think you're looking at this from a far too narrow, individual level. Those protesting in a park do want sometiing, and not just for themselves - greater equality, rather than increasing inequality. It is obtainable and they are trying to do something about it.

Meanwhile, elsewhere people are still trying to "make what they want of themselves" but the evidence shows that increasing inequality makes it increasingly difficult for them to do so. That doesn't stop them trying but it does make it less and less likely they will succeed.

Evidence also shows that in the last 30yrs a smaller gap between rich and poor means a happier, healthier, and more successful population as a whole. I'm bemused why people are against closing this gap given the benefits for all of us.

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I'm not against the gap closing (I'm all for everyone having money/being secure/happy etc) but I am against people expecting things to be done for them to get it instead of doing it themselves. The fact is there are people out there that refuse to put in the hard work and effort to do things for themselves yet they expect these things as some sort of "right" of theirs, so they publicly protest and interupt the rest of our lives in the HOPE that they get what they want. Poor form :down:

People need to start appreciating what they have and not what they don't have.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

In what sense is mention of the fact that success is not just defined by money silly or altruistic?

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For me REAL success is raising my kids to be hard working men who respect their elders, respect that hard work, dedication and persistance is the key to success and to ensure my wife and I can retire happily later in life. Having money is just a bonus. You can't take money with you when you die, but you can keep your legacy when you are gone.