Eki, you are one to talk about truth....you only report what you want to believe.....
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Eki, you are one to talk about truth....you only report what you want to believe.....
How do they know if they are real journalists? What defines a journalist? Do the Islamo-Fascist Bloggers who were on the ship qualify?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Does it matter? Journalists or not, we have no reason to think they were biased, just because they were travelling with a bunch of activists with the interntion of breaking through a naval blockade.
Let's just call them ministers of information. Everyone knows such people are rock solid in what they say.
http://www.welovetheiraqiinformation...7-minister.jpg
QUOTE: Paul WQuote:
Originally Posted by Rani
So, when one Iranian protester is killed it is shown endlessly by US/Israeli media to prove their government is brutal & blood thirsty. When our twisted Secretary of state brags of our unshakable support for Israel, we look the other way when they massacre innocent civilians and humanitarian aid ships are ruthlessly pirated. The USA is an accomplice to War Crimes by the shear fact that we continue to allow them to terrorize & murder, fund their military, Israel is on the receiving end of our extremely generous foreign aid. All the while American citizens are being made homeless, can't afford to go the a doctor,are broke & live in fear of not having a job. As an American Jew I am ashamed of my country's savagery & hypocrisy. Once again our change and hope Commander and chief is muzzled into silence by AIPAC.
Their employers? Journalist cards? If they weren't real journalists, why hold them longer than others?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
No, it's Israel that has ministers of information. Do you have any pictures of them? The former Iraqi information minister is not very relevant here, except he was about as reliable as the Israelis, but that was his job.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
I am going to make some of our resident, bleeding heart, liberals pop a blood vessel.
Under International Law a nation has the right to interdict any vessel if they have reasonable suspicion that the vessel will violate their or international law.
Considering that those on the ship had announced to the world that they intended to violate Israeli law the State of Israel had the right to board the vessel.
Once their soldiers were attacked the laws of Humanity allows them to defend themselves as they saw fit.
Israel acted legally and morally in this event. Actually they showed restraint.
By being on the ship they were violating Israeli and international law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Being a self appointed journalist gives them no special rights or privileges. it is just a job.
No, no, you're confusing things again. It was the ISRAELIS who were violating international law. And the Israeli law does not apply in the international waters or even Gaza.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Sorry Eki, but a expert on international law on NPR radio to day said Israel was legal in doing what it did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
As usual, you are wrong.
He also said, Israel has "international" law on its side ONLY, if it does it every time for every ship.
It cannot pick and choose, or else it is no longer a blockade as written in your blessed "international law".
And who was that said "expert" and what did he/she really say? And what is NPR radio and what are their affiliations?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Have a listen to it yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
http://www.npr.org/templates/player/...70&m=127373354
NPR is essentially of the same spirit as PBS in the United States. It is publicly owned and gets its funding from both public and private sources.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
NPR listeners are probably likely to be the most reliably informed people in the United States.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
Excellent question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
A lot of people think that either the NRA/gun lobby or the tobacco lobby is the most influential in the U.S. Not even close.
[youtube]uNQv5YSg_YA[/youtube]
Someone brought up an interesting point while we were discussing this at the office yesterday. LA County has apparently passed a boycott of Arizona over this illegal immigration law brouhaha. But from what one fellow claimed (and I think he's at least partially correct), if LA County had done the same thing against Israel, that would be a violation of U.S. law. I'll have to look up the particulars later today when I have more time.
But my point remains: the tail wags the dog, as far as Israel and the U.S. are concerned. It's been that way for a loooong time, and it'll be that way for a loooong time.
Then I'm surprised that Bob listens to the NPR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
"Both wrong and both right" (Turkey and Israel), not "Israel is totally right", like Bob would like us to believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
Also, not - supporting terrorists is totally justified, like you would have us believe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Kind of like the Brown Shirts and the Hitler youth were really informed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
NPR is extremely left wing. The fact they actually had somebody on supporting Israel's side says a lot.
Jag the AZ law is fine. Mexifornia is shooting themselves in the foot here. People from AZ that really impact the So Mexifornia population are affluent enough to leave AZ in the summer and head your way. Much of this money won't be coming. This is a fight your idiot leader should have stayed out of until Brewer gets done kicking Obama's ass. But you are broke and with your current leadership you will stay broke for years to come!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
I did not say one side is wrong and one side is right, I said, he said, thaty Israel had the law on its side in dong what it did, but must do it every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Many people on NPR have a liberal bend, but if you listen often enough you will also at times, get heads-up honest reporting, that can put Fox News to shame, much less the other Obama brown nosing networks.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Listening to British and Canadian radio broadcast in the evening, on NPR, also gives one another view of how things are reported.
Liberal bend? Ever listen to Tavis Smiley? And he is a moderate compared to some of the people on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
No, he said it would be allowed only if Israel were in an armed conflict and the blockade were legal. The only one who thinks Israel is in an armed conflict and that the blockade is legal is Israel, therefore Israel didn't have the law on its side. You don't make laws by yourself in a democratic world, others must agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
That is not what was said or the person would have said Israel had no legal standing to as it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
He didn't say anything straight. He said Israel is both right and wrong depending on how you look at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
http://www.diis.dk/graphics/Publicat...2006-7.web.pdf
Turkish authorities began their own domestic criminal investigation of IHH as early as December 1997, when sources revealed that leaders of IHH were purchasing automatic weapons fromother regional Islamic militant groups.
IHH’s bureau in Istanbul was thoroughly searched, and its local officers were arrested. Security forces uncovered an array of disturbing items, including firearms, explosives, bomb-making instructions, and a “jihad flag.” After analyzing seized IHH documents, Turkish authorities concluded that “detained members of IHH were going to fight in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya.”
Who owns the Mavi Marmara, the ship of the group which was boarded? IHH
Even the AP makes mention of this:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...2VZUAD9G3CKJO0
The largest flotilla by far, it was dominated not by Free Gaza, which sent only one small passenger boat, but by three ships sent by an Islamic aid group from Turkey, the Foundation for Human Rights and Freedom and Humanitarian Relief. The group, known by its Turkish acronym IHH, was banned by Israel in 2008 because of alleged ties to Hamas.
Yes, that this whole event isn't clear cut as the world makes out.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Yet another legitimate bit of news escaping that anti-Israel crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
The Israeli's are only guilty of making a hash of the boarding, and they did because of their desire to be "sensititive" to the same sensablities of those who are ripping them anyhow....
I think that tells the tale. I've actually heard about this but haven't found so much information. Full blown terrorists hiding in the midst of an 'aid flotilla' biding their time to try and kill israeli soldiers. Of course the global outrage and automatic kneejerk reaction "I can't believe those savages massacred those aid people" against Israel didn't let anybody get confused by these facts. Our stumbling PR and lamest-ever foreign staff wrecked everything else. On a personal note I must say I am much more disappointed by the way the military went along with such a bad operation then by the way world media showed this. I'm used to the media but expected a lot more from the top brass of the military. Those soldiers were almost killed by that foolish in-the-box thinking. They threw them right into the lion's den without the right preparation. Intelligence just fell sleep on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
I can't believe all those who attacked the soldiers were sent back to turkey for a hero's welcome instead of facing justice. The price of having to appease everybody, I guess. I hope they get some dog poo delivered to their porches.
I had much hope when Turkey wasn't accepted into the EU because I knew they'd turn their efforts to become a regional superpower, one which could bridge the gaps between Israel and Syria/Lebanon/Palestinians. Instead they went the other way to join Iran and Syria against Israel. Their current PM is a disaster, weakening their secular ideology and strengthening radical Islam.
I guess I won't be returning to Bodrum and Antalya anytime soon, their lose.
The thing is Rani, is the last PM I would expect you guys to have to send military into a mission with one arm tied behind their back would be this one. This is a mess from the word go, and the fact no arms actually were on the ship makes you guys really wear a lot of egg on the face.
I wont even get into the rights of stopping the ship. Rollo has shown the legalitities of this stuff better than I (I gave up being the forum's amateur lawyer when I realized the real one was beating my head to a pulp) .
This was just stupid, and the Turk's have really lost a of moral high ground in that they may be heroes to those who think Israel should be forced at gunpoint to accept Hamas living next door with no defence, but in the end, the Turk's will end up being marginalized on the world scene.
I think it's a real shame. I really enjoyed myself last time I was there. I actually liked the people, mediterenean culture at its best. We had Haim Revivo (an israeli footballer) play for two of the biggest clubs there, and he was pretty much worshipped there then. I remember walking through the markets and the second a shopkeeper would hear hebrew he'd start hollering random stuff in hebrew and shout 'Haim Revivo' in order to lure you to his corner. Nice folk and great food too. I hope they retain their secular ideology after this radical islam wave passes over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
I'd like to preface this with saying that the following is WMG - "Wild Mass Guessing" on my part:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
I'm beginning to suspect that this whole debacle is really in effect, a political message designed to justify the "Islamification" of what is otherwise secularist Turkey.
Remember, the current president of Turkey is none other than Abdullah Gul who was elected back in 2007.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6966216.stm
Turkey's military chief warned on Monday that "centres of evil" were trying to undermine the state. Gen Yasar Buyukanit did not name those he said were "trying to corrode the secular nature of the Turkish Republic."
But analysts said the statement was clearly aimed at Mr Gul, a devout Muslim.
Turkey's military and secular establishment suspect he might harbour a secret Islamist agenda.
What better way would there be to justify moves away from secularism, when you can claim victim status in all of this? Plus, it's really easy to demonise Israel when most of the Islamic world already hates them.
This is one of those times I hope you are wrong Rollo. Unfortunately, I think you have hit the nail on the head....Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
Does not anyone think it is strange that a ship supposedly taking aid to Gaza has so many people on board? Why were there more than just the crew?
Also do not forget any ship trying to run a blockade and intercepted that does not obey the orders of the intercepting ship can be sunk.
Thank whatever diety you worship, if any, that Israel did not do that.
I don't think it had anything to do with delivery of humanitarian aid. It was nothing more than political posturing... STUPID political posturing. Having made it clear they would violate the blockade they are indeed lucky that the vessels weren't sent to the bottom of the ocean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Drifter
And Rollo, quite a telling link in regards to the IHH.
The reason that shipped was packed with these do gooder wing nuts is precisly to stop the Isreali's from doing just that. The chattering classes who want to feel morally superior are filled with useful idiots for the cause....Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Drifter
I'm just wondering how much this clusterf### is going to cost me, the American taxpayer. I've already read this book, on many other occasions: Israel gets its panties in a bunch, Israel strikes out, American taxpayer has to send a guilt check to build some houses, buy some planes or whatever.
That unnamed character from Lost was more right than he knew: They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.
Buy a computer equipped with a VIA motherboard and running Linux:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_Technologies
Or just by an AMD chip :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Yes, but without any Microsoft software. Microsoft has a research and development center in Israel:Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
http://www.microsoft.com/israel/rnd/index.html
So does HP, CA, IBM, SAP and Google to name a few.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
I'd tell you to search the rest but now that you guys can't use Google and Boogle what's the point?
Good luck anyway...
:wave:
I might try this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rani
http://goole.com/
Besides, it doesn't matter because I don't pay for using Google. I'll just have to make sure I won't buy from anybody who advertises on Google.