I heard R4T will have 32 mm restrictor. If the engine is otherwise same spec. like in DS3 R3T, the R4T power could be something around 290 Hp.
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I heard R4T will have 32 mm restrictor. If the engine is otherwise same spec. like in DS3 R3T, the R4T power could be something around 290 Hp.
the concept of r4t sounds interesting to me. basically the same idea, of making top rallying cheaper, as the naturally aspired s2000 car rule. and that rule was a good one in my oppinion. sadly the cars got not as "cheap" as in the basic idea. so I'm looking forward that the r4t rules don't cost more than aprox. 160-180k. In that case maybe other manufacturers than peugeot, citroen and skoda see themselves able to createl a car of that category. maybe renault, ford, fiat?
I wonder that psa is going to create a direct rival in the same class since 307/xsara in wrc some years ago.
IMHO this is different story as it was with Xsara/307. New DS3 RT4 & 208 will be cars for customers, there will be not direct factory engagement.Quote:
Originally Posted by prt
Plus in those times Citroën and Peugeot Sport departments were different but now there is only one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ucci
as we all know already, peugeot 208 r2 is coming soon. :)
World Rally Blog » Peugeot announces R2 and R4T versions of 208 » World Rally Blog
after I saw the first pics of building up the car I ask myself (and you specialists) what the tube, welded in under the rear sidewindow, is for. It looks like the one in the sidesill for the jack, but in that hight?? what do you think?
another question is, if there is any regulation in r2 rules about the rim diameter. always 16 inch? if the 208 1.6 street version is rolling on 17 inch, the r2 is also allowed to?
is the enginebase used in c2 r2 simillar to that which is coming in 208 r2?
The tube is for refueling in flight :D Seriously I don't know, it's strange...
Yes, all R2 maximum 16" rims.
I think that the engine is basically same for C2 R2 and 208 R2 but it's only a guessing.
http://www.feline208.net/media/galle...8-r2-1-001.jpg
same pipe is on the both sides...
http://www.feline208.net/media/galle...8-r2-1-002.jpg
What's the latest with R classes?
The FIA should make the WRC just the R Classes. As the new era of road cars is starting...
That is 4WD = Petrol engine to front wheels and electric motors to rear.
Cutting out these special world rally car and S2000 classes nicely.
R1, 2, 3, 4 and GT classes is potentially the way forward for both road and rallying.
Get back to Earth, sir. These "4WD" systems are nothing but a part-time support. 99% of time it works as simple FWD. The only reason why they want to use it is that it's cheaper than Haldex etc. For rallying in current state of development it has a value close to zero.
In category 5, most cars are DS3 R3T and Clio R3. Can the Abarth 500 R3T be as fast as the French cars?
DS3 R3T is 210 HP, 350 Nm, 1230 kg, Abarth 500 R3T is 180 HP and 300 Nm (because it is only 1400 ccm), but 1080 kg!
I haven't seen anybody who tried the Abarth on a WRC event.
DS3 R3 is much stronger. 210 Hp is with stock fuel I think. I heard it has around 230-240 Hp. Abarth 500 is a cup car, not so developed as DS3.
abarth 500 has the problem of short wheelbase + narrow track + the construction of rear suspension is not made for gravel and rough surface. so I think even if the engine would be as strong as ds3 r3 it would no chance.
Thank you guys. And how is the 500 compared to a C2R2?
What is the best R2 car of 2012
C2 R2 max still...
Pls a link to the test of the 208 R2?
visit news and rumours thread...post 8758
are there any news of development on 208 r2? when will the car be available? I cant wait to see this machine beating contenders :D
Some toyota info: we've been to TMG HQ in Cologne to see Toyota's new... on Twitpic
It seems that R classes are waste - very expensive and not that quick as A/N cars.
Agree. But still new classes,,and few used cars yet. Hope for R5 to be success on price.
That's nonsense. Gr.R cars can be seeded in gr.A/N as well. There is very little difference between full A7/R3C, A6/R2B, N2/R1B etc. They are not more expensive than comparable modern cars. In comparison of R3C/S1600 it is exactly opposite. For example C2R2 is less expensive to run than Felicia Kit Car or Saxo Kit Car. Clio R3 is also less expensive to run than Clio S1600.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
Maybe few models but it's hundreds of cars built to date under Gr.R regulations. For example there around 300 of Clios R3, maybe even more C2R2. Sure more than hundred of Fiestas R2, Twingo R2 and R1. Dozens of 207 R3T, DS3 R3T (maybe close to hundred already) or Civics R3 (I believe over 50 built). Than some Puntos R3D, 500 R3T, Fabia R2, Fiesta R1. I probably forgot some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordini
Price of evo 9 group N is up to 50k euros and ds3 r3 costs 90k?! N4 is quicker and cheaper to run.
difference is that those 50K euros have a lot of slack depending the parts you use.... the 90K of the R are somewhat standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
Didn't see anywhere results where r3 won infront of n4 evo 9. Especially on gravel.
Again the same stupid comparison of old car non-competitive in its class (for 50 thousand it will be far from top condition) with a new car which can win its (completely different) class. It's meaningless. Plus You don't compare maintenance and running cost which is far more important.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
I agree with Mirek. There are cars for nearly every budget. One advantage is that r classes cars are nicely developed from factory departments or other specialist. so you get a car that works perfect in every detail. If you wish that, there are also special option parts available like protection or lightweight parts. imo the costs are justified.
another advantage is the marketing. spectators and fans (=customers) look at rallyecars that look equal to roadcars that they are able to buy. no wide body and spoilers as on s1600 cars for example.
the only thing to criticise is, that there are no cars that are equal (performance/cost) to former n3 class. there are only r3/r2 for A7/A6 and r1 for n2. am I rigth?
Yes, You are right. The philosophy of gr.R classes is a bit different than of gr.A/N. Basically in old system for all capacity there was both gr.A and gr.N option (N1/A5, N2/A6, N3/A7) but in new classes it is made that the higher the capacity the more competition upgrades so some of old classes are not included in the new system - A5 or N3. Equivalents would be R3A and R1C but these doesn't exist in regulations.
The closest to A5 is therefore R2B but it makes little sense to homologate 1400 ccm car in 1600 ccm class. The closest to N3 is R2C but no such car was homologated to date.
By how much, any estimates?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
A friend told me exact sums some time a go when they switched from Felicia Kit Car to C2R2 but frankly I forgot exact numbers. I can ask another guy who did the same last year but I will meet him probably only in Rally Český Krumlov in late May...
But it wasn't only about sums of money. The big problem for old cars is not enough spare parts and no factory support. So basically You need to have many parts produced just for Yourself and that takes a lot of time and is very expensive compared to simple order from factory deposits.
Yes for sure quicker but cheaper to run? you sure? :) I dont. It can be expensive to run a Lancer Evo or Impreza if ur a top player for class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
All drivers here and know everything about this... :D
Not knowing everything for sure but I have long experince on N4 cars :) and their expence as a co-driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
Evo IX (9) homologation ends 2014, so after that no international rallies with it.
It can be prolonged.
To be honest a top N4 like Lancer Evo IX with international spec starts from 75-80.000 euros. Of course with a decent dogbox, ralliart stuff and reiger's plus motec and else.
And this car only purchased used. No new. Probably 5-6 years old.
On the other hand R class cars have the same bill but they are brand new with factory support and still under improvemnt. DS3 R3T is turbo charged so its maintance will be higher to C2 R2 or Fiesta R2. But as we can see world goes back to two wheels. As the good old times of Kitcars, S1600. I remember that Renault Sport has the price comparison between Clio S1600 and R3 on his website.
And as tommeke_B said there are differences between same brand cars. Most of C2 R2 Max's didnt match. some are Max some are mini Max :) you all know what i mean :D
What class will be next in the Fiesta saga? They need something btw R2 and WRC/RRC.
Will it be a R3T or R4T/R5?
New Fiesta ST is 1.6T, so probably R3Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland