Luca Badoer Finally Gets Ferrari Drive

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23rd August 2009, 21:33
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamburello

You're starting to believe that? I believed that as soon as Ron Dennis said he liked Domencali.

I don't want the Ferrari team boss to be liked or to be likeable. I want him to out- all the other s.

There isn't enough feck-you attitude in Maranello nowadays.

I must say you are right. Domenicali is way to calm and Motezemolo is making with him whatever he wants.
23rd August 2009, 22:44
woody2goody

Quote:

Originally Posted by jens

Yes, he probably wasn't good enough to make a serious impact in F1, but he was nonetheless better back then than he is now.

The thing is, back then, the guys at the back were 3-4 seconds slower than the guys at the front, so if you were in a Minardi (who seemed to be the only team who were consistently at the back), then you would only have a chance of points in bizarre circumstances (Europe 1999, Australia 2002, USA 2004).

So to say that Badoer getting no points from 50 races or so is so bad, look who he has driven for: Scuderia Italia, Minardi and Forti Corse.

I've got some data to back that up. These are the quali gaps from Minardi drivers to pole position in 1999:

Australia: Badoer +4.7, Gene +6.5
Brazil: Sarrazin +3.4, Gene +4.1
San Marino: Badoer +4.5, Gene +3.6
Monaco: Badoer +3.2, Gene +4.3
Spanish: Badoer +3.7, Gene +3.5
Canada: Badoer +3.5, Gene +4.0
France: Badoer +8.3, Gene +7.8 (Wet race?)
Britain: Badoer +3.8, Gene +3.9
Austria: Badoer +2.6, Gene +3.4
Germany: Badoer +2.9, Gene +2.3
Hungary: Badoer +2.8, Gene +3.7
Belgium: Badoer +3.8, Gene +4.2
Italy: Badoer +2.9, Gene +3.2
Europe (Nurburgring): Badoer 2.7, Gene +2.8
Malaysia: Badoer +4.6, Gene +3.8
Japan: Badoer +5.0, Gene +4.0

I don't think even the biggest critic of Luca could say he (or Marc) ever had a realistic chance of points apart from Europe where his car failed him and Gene scored a point for 6th.
24th August 2009, 03:35
Valve Bounce

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

If not Badoer, then who? I've no love for Badoer but Ferrari must be sure that whoever gets the drive for Spa doesn't have to go through a similar learning curve. So that means no Gene. Piquet and Bourdais are available and have current racing experience but neither have set the world aflame and don't exactly inspire confidence.

I think they should try and buy somebody out. Go get Fisichella. He's Italian, experienced and would probably be available. Grease Vijay's palm with enough green and I reckon he'd let Fisi go.

Can't be worse than this debacle.

I know certain people here will jump on me, but I am confident that either Sato or Ant would have done heaps better than Luca.

To put in perspective Badoer's fast testing time back in 2002, ant ran just .2 secs of SchM's fastest time at Monza during testing 3 years ago, and that was with a Honda. :eek:
24th August 2009, 03:38
Valve Bounce

Quote:

Originally Posted by wedge

He's out of his comfort zone.

Would've done a bit better had he been racing in Silverstone or Barcelona.

It's the Arthritis :( It won't get any better because it is an age thing.
24th August 2009, 06:42
F1boat

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody2goody

The thing is, back then, the guys at the back were 3-4 seconds slower than the guys at the front, so if you were in a Minardi (who seemed to be the only team who were consistently at the back), then you would only have a chance of points in bizarre circumstances (Europe 1999, Australia 2002, USA 2004).

So to say that Badoer getting no points from 50 races or so is so bad, look who he has driven for: Scuderia Italia, Minardi and Forti Corse.

I've got some data to back that up. These are the quali gaps from Minardi drivers to pole position in 1999:

Australia: Badoer +4.7, Gene +6.5
Brazil: Sarrazin +3.4, Gene +4.1
San Marino: Badoer +4.5, Gene +3.6
Monaco: Badoer +3.2, Gene +4.3
Spanish: Badoer +3.7, Gene +3.5
Canada: Badoer +3.5, Gene +4.0
France: Badoer +8.3, Gene +7.8 (Wet race?)
Britain: Badoer +3.8, Gene +3.9
Austria: Badoer +2.6, Gene +3.4
Germany: Badoer +2.9, Gene +2.3
Hungary: Badoer +2.8, Gene +3.7
Belgium: Badoer +3.8, Gene +4.2
Italy: Badoer +2.9, Gene +3.2
Europe (Nurburgring): Badoer 2.7, Gene +2.8
Malaysia: Badoer +4.6, Gene +3.8
Japan: Badoer +5.0, Gene +4.0

I don't think even the biggest critic of Luca could say he (or Marc) ever had a realistic chance of points apart from Europe where his car failed him and Gene scored a point for 6th.

Thanks for the post. :) Nice info. Good luck for Luca in Spa, if he races there.
24th August 2009, 08:55
Bezza

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bezza

Poor choice by Ferrari in my opinion. Badoer is a good test driver but is not a good racing driver. Back in '99 they did the right thing and appointed Salo, who was a free agent and much better than Badoer, who was, ironically, being outpaced by Marc Gene in a Minardi that year.

Badoer has had his chances in F1, he is not F1 material and never will be and this appointment astonishes me.

I think my opinion was proved correct this weekend.

What a joke! Possibly the worst driver ever to compete in an F1 race, he was so out of his depth I think my mum would have done better. At least she wouldn't have been caught speeding in the pitlane FOUR times!
24th August 2009, 08:58
Bezza

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Devote

Badoer said after qualifying that he was in the range that Ferrari targeted for him at this race. That the Valencia race is being treated as a major test session because it is his first run, a new circuit and he could not test before running - he has not driven anything for many months.

He will be racing at Spa and he said that the Belgian Grand Prix will be the first racing test versus Valencia being run for him as a test session only.

Bollocks! He was just slow and he will be slow again at Spa.

He was well past it, and he was never any good to begin with.
24th August 2009, 09:04
jimakos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bezza

Bollocks! He was just slow and he will be slow again at Spa.

He was well past it, and he was never any good to begin with.

Let's give him a second chance guys!
Neither I like him but I think is ferrari's fault that chose Badoer for a so high level!!
If in Spa doesn't make something good he have to go out byhimself ;)
24th August 2009, 09:43
F1boat

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimakos

Let's give him a second chance guys!
Neither I like him but I think is ferrari's fault that chose Badoer for a so high level!!
If in Spa doesn't make something good he have to go out byhimself ;)

I agree, although in theory Monza should be his best track.
24th August 2009, 10:24
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1boat

I agree, although in theory Monza should be his best track.

Why not say Abu Dhabi is his best chance (as no one raced there)?
This way you apologize him for the rest of the season. :D

IMO he won't be good on any track, not with the driving he showed last week end.
24th August 2009, 10:34
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bezza

What a joke! Possibly the worst driver ever to compete in an F1 race...

No way. The performances by, for example, Al Pease and Jean-Denis Deletraz were far, far worse. Though I will concede that Badoer was an embarrassment for Ferrari at best.
24th August 2009, 10:37
Bezza

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

No way. The performances by, for example, Al Pease and Jean-Denis Deletraz were far, far worse. Though I will concede that Badoer was an embarrassment for Ferrari at best.

Al Pease? Not heard of that one you'll have to enlighten me. Deletraz indeed though was far worse, you're right. :)

Badoer certainly the worst of the decade. Worse than Yuji Ide!
24th August 2009, 11:09
ShiftingGears

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bezza

Al Pease? Not heard of that one you'll have to enlighten me. Deletraz indeed though was far worse, you're right. :)

Badoer certainly the worst of the decade. Worse than Yuji Ide!

He'll get better. He'll still be bog slow though.

At least Badoer hasn't shown himself to be outright dangerous like Ide was. So far, anyway.
24th August 2009, 11:21
jimakos

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Why not say Abu Dhabi is his best chance (as no one raced there)?

Correct opinion this!
Abu Dhabi will be the best chance to him but I don't think that he'll go so away...
24th August 2009, 11:29
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimakos

Correct opinion this!
Abu Dhabi will be the best chance to him but I don't think that he'll go so away...

I certainly hope he won't. :D
24th August 2009, 11:30
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

He'll get better. He'll still be bog slow though.

At least Badoer hasn't shown himself to be outright dangerous like Ide was. So far, anyway.

That's just because every time someone came close to him he LET them by something Ide wouldn't have done, and rightly so.
24th August 2009, 12:14
F1boat

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Why not say Abu Dhabi is his best chance (as no one raced there)?
This way you apologize him for the rest of the season. :D

IMO he won't be good on any track, not with the driving he showed last week end.

He knows Monza very well, that's why I think that it will be his best chance to shine there.
24th August 2009, 12:54
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1boat

He knows Monza very well, that's why I think that it will be his best chance to shine there.

When did he drive last time at Monza?
24th August 2009, 12:58
F1boat

My statement about Monza is based in the opinion which I heard by various F1 experts which I believe know more about the sport than you.
24th August 2009, 13:20
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1boat

My statement about Monza is based in the opinion which I heard by various F1 experts which I believe know more about the sport than you.

This is laughable.
I do not consider myself an F1 expert, but I also know that 99% of the so called experts know close to nothing about Badoer and what he could do in Monza.

So, once again, when did Badoer last time drive a F1 car around Monza?

PS: The only tracks he might do significantly better than he did last week are Mugello and Fiorano because he drove those tracks hundreds of times more than any other driver, but even there the actual crop of f1 drivers would be beating him after a couple FP sessions.
24th August 2009, 13:27
F1boat

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

This is laughable.
I do not consider myself an F1 expert, but I also know that 99% of the so called experts know

That's how you think, I can't help you. The discuss anything with you which is not strictly technical is pointless. Bye!
24th August 2009, 13:37
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

This is laughable.
I do not consider myself an F1 expert, but I also know that 99% of the so called experts know close to nothing about Badoer and what he could do in Monza.

So, once again, when did Badoer last time drive a F1 car around Monza?

PS: The only tracks he might do significantly better than he did last week are Mugello and Fiorano because he drove those tracks hundreds of times more than any other driver, but even there the actual crop of f1 drivers would be beating him after a couple FP sessions.

ioan, on this occasion I'm with you 100 per cent. How much does 'local knowledge' really influence any F1 driver's performance on a circuit these days? I'd say not a lot.

I was re-reading an article the other day which included Eddie Jordan's predictions for this season. Now, he may have many detractors, but he still knows more about F1 than you or I. However, all of his predictions were absolute bo11ocks - worth no more than yours or mine. So the words of people who are undoubtedly experts of one form or another are not necessarily worth much.
24th August 2009, 13:50
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

ioan, on this occasion I'm with you 100 per cent.

Thanks! It's good to see we still agree every now and then, especially on the obvious aspects of the sport. :)
24th August 2009, 13:50
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1boat

That's how you think, I can't help you. The discuss anything with you which is not strictly technical is pointless. Bye!

:wave:
24th August 2009, 14:07
ioan

Apparently Badoer also managed to crash into Sutil's Force India in Parc ferme after the race! :laugh:
His week end was worse as Yuji Ide's average ones, I wonder how long before the FIA decide to revoke his superlicense in order to make our lives easier! :rotflmao:
24th August 2009, 14:09
F1boat

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDunnell

ioan, on this occasion I'm with you 100 per cent. How much does 'local knowledge' really influence any F1 driver's performance on a circuit these days? I'd say not a lot.

I was re-reading an article the other day which included Eddie Jordan's predictions for this season. Now, he may have many detractors, but he still knows more about F1 than you or I. However, all of his predictions were absolute bo11ocks - worth no more than yours or mine. So the words of people who are undoubtedly experts of one form or another are not necessarily worth much.

I trust James Allen. I follow his articles and his predictions usually come true.
24th August 2009, 14:13
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1boat

I trust James Allen. I follow his articles and his predictions usually come true.

James has good articles because he is in the paddock and can get general info from the source, but when it comes to 2+2 he usually messes it up and makes it 5.
24th August 2009, 14:14
F1boat

Haven't noticed IMO. He fails to predict what will happen when there is a big shift in the team order, like McLaren in Hungary, but then few can predict these things anyway.
24th August 2009, 14:21
BDunnell

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1boat

I trust James Allen. I follow his articles and his predictions usually come true.

Yes, his blog is certainly worth a read.
24th August 2009, 14:54
callum122

I predicted Badoer to finish the race in 11th.

Get him out of the F***ing car.
24th August 2009, 14:58
Garry Walker

Quote:

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

He'll get better. He'll still be bog slow though.

At least Badoer hasn't shown himself to be outright dangerous like Ide was. So far, anyway.

He has been going too slow to be dangerous.
24th August 2009, 15:48
Bezza

They should remove Badoer now, he is embarrassing himself and will only be looked back on in future years as a useless driver, when without these races he would have been an average driver who never got a chance in a decent car!

F1 is funny really. I remember some people over in History & Nostalgia voting Badoer as the 49th best driver of all time (!) - because of his test driving duties with Ferrari. This was already stupid, but now after Valencia, would they still vote him in at 49th???
24th August 2009, 15:48
Roamy

well this is a sad state I must say. Then dumbass Ferrari is going to waste spa by letting the stone drive again. Maybe I will send him a decal from the space shuttle because if he tries eau rouge flat he will be launched. The guy is scared and that does not go well in motorsports. Gene has be driving some fast machinery this year and I can't imagine the stone was chosen over him.
24th August 2009, 16:18
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by fousto

well this is a sad state I must say. Then dumbass Ferrari is going to waste spa by letting the stone drive again. Maybe I will send him a decal from the space shuttle because if he tries eau rouge flat he will be launched. The guy is scared and that does not go well in motorsports. Gene has be driving some fast machinery this year and I can't imagine the stone was chosen over him.

And Gene makes it clear that he is unhappy with t he teams decision, even if he accepts it:

Quote:

"These past weeks have not been easy for me," Gene wrote in his column in El Mundo newspaper.

"It's hard to assume that you won't be racing at your home grand prix after winning the Le Mans 24 Hours and having completed over 10,000 kilometers with Ferrari and Peugeot.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77965

How is it possible that Ferrari overlooked a LeMans winner, someone who drove several races in very high performance machinery this season?
The answer is LdM's big ego and lack of knowledge of his own team.
24th August 2009, 18:51
leopard

Supposing Ferrari is so kind to give Badoer more chances, we hope he can make some improvement. It was excusable for driver who hasn't driven quite long for the whole race. Although at the end team has to prepare the worst probability from the consequence of selecting replacement drivers.

I am not really sure these two drivers will drive that slow, I named two names, Mark if not Michael...
24th August 2009, 22:43
52Paddy

I must say though, as much as I support Badoer's efforts, its been a while since we've had something like this. A driver returning and making a bad impression on some. When was the last time? I guess it would have been Tarso Marques in 2001, who had raced previously in 1997. Though I'm still hanging on for Spa. Téigh Lúcas mo sean-bláthana!!
25th August 2009, 03:29
ShiftingGears

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garry Walker

He has been going too slow to be dangerous.

He still managed to mingle with the backmarkers thanks to KERS at the start ;)
That could've ended badly considering how spacially inept he appeared to be after his pitlane incident.
25th August 2009, 04:38
woody2goody

Quote:

Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

He still managed to mingle with the backmarkers thanks to KERS at the start ;)
That could've ended badly considering how spacially inept he appeared to be after his pitlane incident.

Well somebody ran into him at the start so we'll never know. I know it's fashionable to jump on the bandwagon of having a go at the poor guy, but he did make up 6 places on the opening lap before being shunted on that lap and spinning off on the second lap I think.

Oh and FYI, Ide was 2.8 slower than Sato in Australia qualifying, 1.7 in Malaysia, 3.9 (!) in Australia, and 1.6 in his fourth and final race, in Imola.

I will almost guarantee Luca will be within 0.5 of Kimi even by the next race. Comparisons of Ide are stupid. I bet if Michael Schumacher had been in the car, he would have been half a second off Kimi at least due to having to learn the car/track etc. By the end of the race he would have got there but only just.

Luca's race pace was on par with most of the midfield runners for most of the race. He would probably have beaten Grosjean, Alguersuari and Glock without the spins and penalty.
25th August 2009, 05:30
pino

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody2goody

Well somebody ran into him at the start so we'll never know. I know it's fashionable to jump on the bandwagon of having a go at the poor guy, but he did make up 6 places on the opening lap before being shunted on that lap and spinning off on the second lap I think.

Oh and FYI, Ide was 2.8 slower than Sato in Australia qualifying, 1.7 in Malaysia, 3.9 (!) in Australia, and 1.6 in his fourth and final race, in Imola.

I will almost guarantee Luca will be within 0.5 of Kimi even by the next race. Comparisons of Ide are stupid. I bet if Michael Schumacher had been in the car, he would have been half a second off Kimi at least due to having to learn the car/track etc. By the end of the race he would have got there but only just.

Luca's race pace was on par with most of the midfield runners for most of the race. He would probably have beaten Grosjean, Alguersuari and Glock without the spins and penalty.

I am glad to see that I am not alone in this jungle :p : ;)
25th August 2009, 06:10
Easy Drifter

I do not usually post in F1 on drivers unless involving an incident.
Luca has hardly been in a race car this year because of the testing ban.
He has not actually raced for several years.
Considering I think he did a reasonable job.
There could be a considerable step up by Spa. He now knows the car. It will be a track he has raced at although years ago and changed. He deserves the chance. If he is as far off the pace again then he should probably be replaced.
In addition to Gene and the Ant do not forget Piquet and Bourdais would jump at the chance to drive. Of course, JV would also probably be willing!!!!!! :eek: :D

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