Raise the age of driving to 18

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Now that I can drive I wouldn't even consider using public transport, because it is FAR too expensive, inconvenient, slow, dirty and less pleasurable than driving. My house to work is a 8 minute journey in a car, on a bus it is a 20 minute one and costs over £3 or a single :mad: Also, because it is only an hourly service I would either be 10 minutes late or 50 minutes early.

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Spoken like a true Texan. Thats why Houston has never been able to get a sales tax increase to fund a public light rail choo-choo to go from one end to the other. Nobody wants to ride the thing. This late in the game, I'm not sure, but even their Metro Bus public transportation system used to lose money all the time. Maybe it pays for itself now.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I believe that holding a referendum on every single item of taxation, of which there have to be many, would be unnecessarily cumbersome and expensive.

By the way, apologies if I misrepresented your general view on taxation.

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No apology necessary, it is easy to get that opinion of me. I don't believe planning ahead, getting your ducks in a row, and going to the people twice a year with tax proposals would be unworkable or extremely expensive. In fact, I would dare to say if handled honestly it would increase peoples respect for their elected officials. I want to know my money, that I worked damned hard for, is being used prudently and not being thrown away on some feel-good program that is really designed to garner votes to keep the official in office. You may not believe it, but I'm really a very charitable guy and probably donate more money willingly than I'd be willing to allow the government to take. Of course, I get to pick and choose where my money goes. As a general rule, not very much of it goes to people that REPEATEDLY make poor life style choices while expecting me to pick up the tab for their care and feeding. I have no pity for them. I have no problem with those who have been dealt a bad hand and are struggling to fight their way back. I applaud those people and will help them as I can. I don't care if thats "fair" or not. Some people regularly demonstrate by their actions that they have more value than others.

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Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7

I wouldn't fund rural public transport. Thats part of the breaks of living in the country.

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This is the great difference between our countries. Many rural British areas were built hundreds of years ago before industrialisation.

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Originally Posted by Drew

This is the great difference between our countries. Many rural British areas were built hundreds of years ago before industrialisation.

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Ok, fair enough. How much are you, personally, willing to contribute to a rural transportation system? How long are you willing to contribute? Bear in mind the system isn't likely to ever pay for itself, much less turn a profit. If it could, a private company would already be doing it. Would you rather have buses in the country or better schools and/or medical care? What will your feelings be in 5 years when the numbers show that many city dwellers have moved to the country to get away from the crime, grime, noise, higher city taxes, and congestion of the city and best of all, thanks to the rural bus system you are funding for them. actually commute to their jobs in the city cheaper than they could when they lived in the city?

I have a problem with forcing a rural transportation on the taxpayers against their will. Package your proposal honestly, don't sugarcoat it by claiming it will pay for itself, tell them what they can expect to pay for it on an individual basis and let them vote on it. You may sell it, but I think most Britons would rubbish it also.

That's the very reason why rural brach lines were closed in the 1960's. Indeed it was said that it would be cheaper to pay for individual taxi's for each of the people rather than run trains.

Buses are another solution, but again, they cost a lot to run so they need a good amount of passengers on them.

All public transport needs a certain number of people going from the same place to the same place at the same time for it to be effective, and in rural areas those numbers often just aren't there. The solution to the problem, strangely enough, is private transport, i.e. cars :p

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Now that I can drive I wouldn't even consider using public transport, because it is FAR too expensive, inconvenient, slow, dirty and less pleasurable than driving. My house to work is a 8 minute journey in a car, on a bus it is a 20 minute one and costs over £3 or a single :mad: Also, because it is only an hourly service I would either be 10 minutes late or 50 minutes early.

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Yeah its quicker, but is your car seriously cheaper once you've put petrol in it, tax it and insured it?

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Originally Posted by GridGirl

Yeah its quicker, but is your car seriously cheaper once you've put petrol in it, tax it and insured it?

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I didn't say that it was cheaper than driving, but it is expensive for what you are paying for when you travel by bus. I'd pay more for the privilege of driving a car as it provides a far better service than the buses do.

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Originally Posted by GridGirl

Yeah its quicker, but is your car seriously cheaper once you've put petrol in it, tax it and insured it?

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Maybe not, but he can listen to whatever music he wants, drink his coffee, nibble a sandwhich, sing, fart, decide to make an unscheduled stop on the way home, I guess smoke if he wants, not have to listen to 16 cell phone conversations than don't concern him, or pretend to tolerate the bad and boorish behaviour of the ill-mannered that he may find himself sitting next to on the bus.

It's not always about cheaper.

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Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7

Ok, fair enough. How much are you, personally, willing to contribute to a rural transportation system? How long are you willing to contribute? Bear in mind the system isn't likely to ever pay for itself, much less turn a profit. If it could, a private company would already be doing it. Would you rather have buses in the country or better schools and/or medical care? What will your feelings be in 5 years when the numbers show that many city dwellers have moved to the country to get away from the crime, grime, noise, higher city taxes, and congestion of the city and best of all, thanks to the rural bus system you are funding for them. actually commute to their jobs in the city cheaper than they could when they lived in the city?

I have a problem with forcing a rural transportation on the taxpayers against their will. Package your proposal honestly, don't sugarcoat it by claiming it will pay for itself, tell them what they can expect to pay for it on an individual basis and let them vote on it. You may sell it, but I think most Britons would rubbish it also.

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As Drew said, Britain is far different from America. Rural areas over here probably aren't as 'rural' as places in America ;) I'm considered to live in a rural area but I'm still only 10 miles away from 3 large towns (Preston, Lancaster & Blackpool) yet the bus service is a complete joke. Surely there are people who want to go from town to town and to do that they have to go through the countryside. An improvement in bus services would benefit all.

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Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7

Maybe not, but he can listen to whatever music he wants, drink his coffee, nibble a sandwhich, sing, fart, decide to make an unscheduled stop on the way home, I guess smoke if he wants, not have to listen to 16 cell phone conversations than don't concern him, or pretend to tolerate the bad and boorish behaviour of the ill-mannered that he may find himself sitting next to on the bus.

It's not always about cheaper.

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