BRC 2016 Pirelli Carlisle Rally

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Originally Posted by MrJan

Jesus! People are far more outraged about this than they need to be. It's a balls up, they've acknowledged it was a balls up and we'll now have some shitty little chicanes thrown in to more of the quick stages to keep the speed down. I also can't believe how difficult it is for some people to understand that this is a REQUIREMENT of the insurance.

Yes it's a pain that bogey times exist, but it's not exactly a new feature of rallying and is sadly a necessary evil (either we have the average speed limits or we have no rally, it's as simple as that). Okay so other countries do it differently, but the British Rally Championship wouldn't be the BRC if it ran in Finland would it?! So for as long as the BRC is run in Britain it will fall under the MSA banner, which means it has the MSA insurance, which means that bogey times will continue to exist.

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Maybe not outraged, but if look at it from the outside it is just ridiculous. I know that rules are rules, but maybe some people need to rethink regulations.

Couple of nice videos showing the modern and historic's in action...

https://youtu.be/h1-QkJKowh8

https://youtu.be/vX7Y-B30Ymw

More chicane's ? Hmmm...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChX3hCUW0AEH3e3.jpg

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Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira

Organizers should avoid that issue. Simple.

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Simple? Do you really think that trying to guess the average speed of a field of top level drivers through say 10 miles of forest track is easy? Perhaps you should offer your expert services to the organising team (many of whom will be volunteers, quite possibly without even covering expenses) for next season.

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Originally Posted by b3637853

I know that rules are rules, but maybe some people need to rethink regulations.

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Are you being deliberately obtuse? If insurance wants average speed to be capped then the regulations have to operate within that, they can rethink the Blue Book until the end of days, but it won't change the fact that the MSA won't be able to get insurance cover or it will be prohibitively expensive.

Trying to reason with British autism is a lost war...

Do the insurance companies want those stupid bogey times (which I heard about for the first time in my life this past weekend)? Is that their 'solution?' Or did the MSA/the organisers/whoever else come up with that idea?

I think nobody in here is denying the organisers can just ignore the rules, but there are a lot more sensible and effective ways to enforce lower average speeds than by using bogey times.

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Originally Posted by EightGear

Do the insurance companies want those stupid bogey times (which I heard about for the first time in my life this past weekend)? Is that their 'solution?'

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Yes (or at least when I have asked MSA representatives that is certainly what I have been told.

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Or did the MSA/the organisers/whoever else come up with that idea?

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I know enough organisers to be confident in saying that organisers hate bogey times just as much as competitors (and they also hate chicanes).

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I think nobody in here is denying the organisers can just ignore the rules, but there are a lot more sensible and effective ways to enforce lower average speeds than by using bogey times.

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So please tell us about other solutions (but keep in mind that the Forestry Commission only allow a much more restricted choice of roads these days compared to the past)?

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Originally Posted by Martin Liddle

So please tell us about other solutions (but keep in mind that the Forestry Commission only allow a much more restricted choice of roads these days compared to the past)?

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I believe Mirek summed up some better solutions which are used in CZ. Cancelling the second pass.

But OK, it's not like there would be much milage left in UK rallies these days if a stage gets cancelled.

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Originally Posted by MrJan

Are you being deliberately obtuse? If insurance wants average speed to be capped then the regulations have to operate within that, they can rethink the Blue Book until the end of days, but it won't change the fact that the MSA won't be able to get insurance cover or it will be prohibitively expensive.

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I just stated that people who created the rule about speed limit in rally should get some sense. Obviously organisers have to obey the rules as rally couldn't take place. But just look at this from the outside. What If I told you there is a rally organised somewhere and the drivers can't use 5th gear. Ridiculous isn't it?

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Originally Posted by EightGear

I believe Mirek summed up some better solutions which are used in CZ. Cancelling the second pass.

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It is an interesting solution but it seems to me that it makes a small number of competitors at the front of the field happy but if a stage second run is cancelled then the majority of the competitors who couldn't get close to the bogey are unhappy.