Do You Know the Real Islam?

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Science has proven nothing occurs in nature by chance, so that theory is self-destructing.
Nothing can occur by natural selection unless an organism is pre-wired to do x,y or z under circustances x, y, or z.
In evolution that cannot happen as all is a crap-shoot with no pre-defined standards.

So evolution cannot exist.

As I said, nothing comes from nothing, making the scientific statements about life being an accident is absolutely asinine.

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The fact that you associate science with being asinine says much about you.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

I appreciate your point that you are making about the Roman Catholic moral guidance would in theory mean condoms aren't needed to fight HIV. But to be truly moral couldn't the church perhaps say:

1) be faithful to your partner
2) if you're likely to infect, don't have sex within marriage (or don't marry at all).
3) If you know you are likely to infect a potential spouse, tell them before you marry or the marriage is not a marriage.
4) If you do feel you need to use a condom, it's between you, your conscience and God.

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Any pretense the Catholic Church may have towards morality has been well and truly done away with by virtue of what we know of the abuse scandals.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Science has proven nothing occurs in nature by chance.

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I agree. Evolution agrees, Darwin agrees. As I said in the post you quoted; natural selection doesn't happen by chance. In the relevant sense of chance - natural selection is the opposite.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Nothing can occur by natural selection unless an organism is pre-wired to do x,y or z under circustances x, y, or z.
In evolution that cannot happen as all is a crap-shoot with no pre-defined standards.

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This 'pre wiring' exists. It is called DNA.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

So evolution cannot exist.

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does exist.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

As I said, nothing comes from nothing.

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Excellent. So if this is true (quantum mechanics might disagree with you here) then you are proving to us that God can't exist. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Man cannot create something that it has not idea exists or will work.
All ideas are based on something and if there is no god that idea cannot exist.
Nothing comes from nothing.

Just so you understand, if there was no god, the idea of a god could not be created as no such idea existed nor could anyone have thought of anything for which they had zero input to use to create it-- religion could not and would not exist, nor would anyone have any idea of how to make one.

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Okay. I'm going to use your babyish argument for Gods existence to prove evolution.

If there was no evolution, the idea could not be created as no such idea existed nor could anyone have thought of anything for which they had zero input to use to create it......

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Nothing can occur by natural selection unless an organism is pre-wired to do x,y or z under circustances x, y, or z.
In evolution that cannot happen as all is a crap-shoot with no pre-defined standards.

So evolution cannot exist.

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Evolution does exist. We see it in action in the evolution of disease especially to do with drug-resistance.

Evolution occurs through genetic mutations that occur every time a cell replicates. Most are corrected at the time of error, some are fatal, most are of no use whatsoever but a few confer an advantage or disadvantage.

Sorry you don't believe in it but that has no bearing on the fact that it exists and is being observed in action.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

Evolution does exist. We see it in action in the evolution of disease especially to do with drug-resistance.

Evolution occurs through genetic mutations that occur every time a cell replicates. Most are corrected at the time of error, some are fatal, most are of no use whatsoever but a few confer an advantage or disadvantage.

Sorry you don't believe in it but that has no bearing on the fact that it exists and is being observed in action.

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Evolution is just as much a theory as gravity is a theory. In fact, we understand evolution better than we understand gravity. The difference is that we know gravity is a fact because it is working on us for every second of our lives. Evolution in species takes too long for most of us to observe.

Any argument I have ever heard against evolution just proves that the given person just doesn't understand evolution.

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Originally Posted by Brown, Jon Brow

Evolution is just as much a theory as gravity is a theory. In fact, we understand evolution better than we understand gravity. The difference is that we know gravity is a fact because it is working on us for every second of our lives. Evolution in species takes too long for most of us to observe.

Any argument I have ever heard against evolution just proves that the given person just doesn't understand evolution.

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IIRC a theory is a theory until the principle has been widely accepted. The terms 'theory of evolution' or 'theory of gravity' are historical and apply largely to the times they were first postulated and the furore they caused at the time.

I do agree though that if there is conflicting evidence then the principle has to be challenged.

There's also a misunderstanding of the word theory, in general usage theory means something that is supposed but without much evidence.

However; the scientific definition is much different, in that a theory is a hypothesis that has been proven - as much as humanly possible - to be true. It's still called a 'theory' as most things in science cannot be proved 100% and so the word theory rather than 'law' is used.

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Originally Posted by Malbec

IIRC a theory is a theory until the principle has been widely accepted.

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No; theory itself means it has been widely accepted.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Virutal particles are part of a group of theories which are just that theories, or guess work with no facts backing them up.
They are as much faith, scientists have in themselves, as faith the the base for religious persons.

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Virtual particles are used to explain facts seen every day in experiments at the LHC, for example.
Show me one fact that backs up your theory of god, other than the fact that "we" haven't a clue why we are here without divine beings putting us here, apparently with the sole purpose to believe in them, and then you can compare science and faith.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Nothing comes from nothing and for anyone to say it does, makes the person a raving lunatic or a complete ass, at least when thsome same one says that believing in an unseen God that has always been is rediculous.
Two items: a God that has always been or something coming to exist out of absolutely nothing with no guiding intellegence or material to use to exist.
Which is more fanciful?

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Before we wander too far into metaphysics (when you say "always", do you also mean before time "began" ? ;) . Regarding "nothing": is "0" nothing or is it a number? Is emptiness empty, or full of nothing? Is nothingness something and if it is, then what exactly is it? ;) )...
let us simply imagine that "something" has "always" "existed".
Two items:
Something evolves spontanously out of it to eventually become the everything we perceive now, or a personal god with a "mind" of it's own "intentionally" creates everything as we see it now.
Which is more fanciful?
Clearly, a god. Specially one who supposedly created everything in seven days, 6000 years ago, and does miracles and guides you though his son or holy ghost or whatever other religious theory you might hold... talk about raving loonies :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

If you read science journals old theories or accepted standards are contiually failing, being replaced by new unknown discoveries and theories to explain why the new theories replace the old.

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Continually failing is your interpretation... continually improved upon is more like it. There are no everlasting bibles in science. Theories aren't written in stone, they evolve naturally. ;) :p