Government is evil...

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Originally Posted by chuck34

That's fine. I don't really want to debate God here with you. But if you don't acknowledge some form of a Creator, where do you believe that your rights come from, particularly life? A government that can just as easily revoke your rights as they granted them?

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On the general point, whatever one's views on matters of religion, I do not believe that the right to life is inherent in the very existence of life. That right had to develop. Who was responsible for that? Not everyone collectively, but certain individuals.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Not concerning the rights one still has.
They may be a continualtion of previous rights, or rights other governments have granted, but said same rights may be voided, legally by the government one lives under at the moment.
They are legal rights, and laws of the government one lives under determines what is legal and what is not.

That was/IS why in the U.S. States Rights are now such a point of contention concerning the Constitutional authority of the Federal Government vs States Rights as granted by the U.S. Constitution.

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True, but I was referring to their development in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Good Lord man, have you?

The Ten Commandments are absolute laws, that deliberately breaking gives one an express ticket to hell.
"Thou shalt not" is not part of the U.S. Bill of Rights, but is part of the Ten Commandments.

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Thou shalt not murder, steal, etc. Yep those don't sound like laws protecting Life, or Property at all. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Do you know the difference between a legal right, and a government's law's?

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Please enlighten me.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

The Jews had no other official government till their constant pissing and moaning cauised God to decide to give them their King, which turned out to be a cluster-f, for the morons who thought a man would be better than their God.

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Wow, don't even know where to start.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

The laws in the Bible, are the worst thing to use as a legal reason for rights, of any source.

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Right so you are saying that common law does not trace back to the 10 Commandments?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

On the general point, whatever one's views on matters of religion, I do not believe that the right to life is inherent in the very existence of life. That right had to develop. Who was responsible for that? Not everyone collectively, but certain individuals.

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So if you are born, you don't necessarily have the right to life? Again, are you really serious about this?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I am a devout atheist.

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So how did we all get here then?

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Originally Posted by chuck34

So if you are born, you don't necessarily have the right to life? Again, are you really serious about this?

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Maybe I should have been more clear. Let us go back to when human life began. In what sense did rights develop as soon as the first human being came into existence? They did not automatically exist. They, and all value systems, had to develop. Who was responsible for their development? As I said, not everybody, but certain individuals. In that process, certain rights will naturally have been taken away — the right to kill, for example. I fail to understand the difference between that process and the notion of formal government bestowing and denying rights.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Thou shalt not murder, steal, etc. Yep those don't sound like laws protecting Life, or Property at all. Only if one is totally clue-less to the difference between legal laws and legal rights.

Please enlighten me.
legal rights DefinitionLegally guaranteed powers available to a legal entity in realization or defense of its just and lawful claims or interests.
Legal rights (like laws) affect every citizen, whether or not the existence such rights is publicly known.
Oh my, rights are like laws, not the same thing. Your school failed you as a youth.

Right so you are saying that common law does not trace back to the 10 Commandments?

Give the man a cigar.
Show me where it does.
If you are going to use the Bible, give me the Bible verse that says having slaves is rightfully wrong.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Maybe I should have been more clear. Let us go back to when human life began. In what sense did rights develop as soon as the first human being came into existence? They did not automatically exist. They, and all value systems, had to develop. Who was responsible for their development? As I said, not everybody, but certain individuals.

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I, and anyone other than an athiest, would say God granted us the right to life. But if you are really dead set on not believing in that, how about once man developed a consious mind?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

In that process, certain rights will naturally have been taken away — the right to kill, for example. I fail to understand the difference between that process and the notion of formal government bestowing and denying rights.

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There has never been a right to kill. That interferes with someone else's right to Life. Thus the necessity for governments and laws, to protect your rights, and provide consequences to those who violate them. As such governments do not bestow or deny rights, they simply act as an arbitor when disputes arise.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Maybe I should have been more clear. Let us go back to when human life began.

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How did this happen, 1 minute no humans, the next, pow humans all over the planet?

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

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Wow, my school failed me as a youth. Good grounding for your arguments, personal insults, always gets you far.