guns and their cost in lives and

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Originally Posted by Easy Drifter

No but the anti US rhetoric is.

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What about Starter's anti-Europe rhetoric?

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Is it possible for you to ever write anything that is not absurd and non-factual? Ever?

What does the US walking in at the last 6 months of a 4 1/2 year war and taking part in just a few offensive operations have to do with "saving their bacon' in WWI?

And similarly in WWII after our allies had carried the hugest part of the actual shooting war for again 4 1/2 years, and already killed 3 1/2 million or so of the bad guys, we finally enage in operations 1/5 the size of what they had been doing for years---and continued to do to the very end, what does THAT myth you out as an insult have to do with the violent nature of US society---which is the subject that you seem to have forgotten...


Second, you say "And it was the people with guns and determination many years ago that made it possible for all to have their say today" as if it were a fact, but anybody with more than a 10 year iolds understanding of US hisory would know that it was men poring over DESKS, and fighting with words in Congress and later in COURTS of LAW which gave everybody in the country to right to FREE SPEECH, and indeed it is those with lots of guns who have always been willing to deprive people of their rights of Free Speech.

As horrible as it is, soldiers dying in the mud has not been where our political liberties and especially the supposed universal Civil Rights have come from or been assured. That is childish to suggest, not worthy of polite or adult discussion..

As horrible as it is to say it has been dissidents, and protesters on the streets and lawyers representing them in US Courts against men with guns---men who believe and repeat twaddle and who never THINK what they are doing or saying whop have established and protected our Constitutionally guaranteed Civil Rights.

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This is true to the word IMO.
It In and of itself it is not a reason to repeal the right to bear arms. As an American I think I would be unaffected by it if we did since I don't own any guns.

But back to the history lesson, a disproportionate amount of Americans believe that Franco-American military relations started in 1917. That is what they choose to believe.
The truth is that the US would not have had a chance to be in a position to succeed in our Revolutionary War if France hadn't bankrupted itself supporting us. Besides providing us with 90% of our gunpowder, the timeliness of French Naval Fleet that prevented General Howe from escaping by sea in the decisive battle of Yorktown, they also provided half the regular ground forces, not to mention artillery and the engineers to maximize their effectiveness in that engagement.
You have names like General Rochambeau who had to convince Washington to attack at Yorktown instead of New York. There is a prominent Statue of Marquis de Lafayette in DC to commemorate his contribution, He was an exceptional motivator and military mind especially effective in the guerilla warfare.

As to the twentieth century Woodrow Wilson did write a Letter to General Foch the supreme commander of allied forces near the conclusion of WW1 with what he thought would be fair terms of surrender for Germay. However Foch was not feeling too conciliatory after 1.5 million of his countrymen had made the ultimate sacrifice. This is arguably the direct reason that someone like Hitler was able to capture a degraded nation’s support.
But I think the actual distain for France came from a series of events that happened when allies liberated French cities. The French Underground was so well organized (and this would not have been possible without the assistance of the British who understood their importance long before the U.S. entered the conflict) that as each town was liberated they already had what amounted to a local government in place. "No need for occupation over here Yank, but thanks for the help".
C’est la vie :dozey:

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Originally Posted by Eki

Why not? The State government and the National Guard could turn against you as easily as the Federal government and the US military, maybe even more so.

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You definitely do not understand U.S. society outside of the large cities. If you were born here you would know that that is not going to happen, as things stand.

Sadly the liberals and progressives who know nothing outside of their big city compounds, and kiss-ass narcissistic circle, are probably as mis-informed.

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Originally Posted by Eki

Well, the Vietnamese don't get to vote in the US either, but at least they got their way in their country in the end.

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LOL, hmm, come to Minn. their are a large number of Vietnamese war veterans here, and you tell them that.

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Originally Posted by Eki

The Americans saved the bacon, canned it and gave it to the Soviets.

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The Democratic party did that, not the Americans.

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Originally Posted by janvanvurpa

Second, you say "And it was the people with guns and determination many years ago that made it possible for all to have their say today" as if it were a fact, but anybody with more than a 10 year iolds understanding of US hisory would know that it was men poring over DESKS, and fighting with words in Congress and later in COURTS of LAW which gave everybody in the country to right to FREE SPEECH, and indeed it is those with lots of guns who have always been willing to deprive people of their rights of Free Speech.

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The Right to Free Speech existed in the United States from 1689 because of the Bill of Rights Act. The 13 colonies were British and therefore British Law applied.
Secondly the right to "have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law" was also contained in the very same act.

Australia gained its "independance" for virtually all intents and purposes in 1901, New Zealand in 1907 and India in 1950, all without the use of guns and in all three cases "poring over desks, and fighting with words" "in courts of law."

Guns do not kill people!

People kill people! end of story

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Originally Posted by Eki

Yes, Finnish war veterans have also told that sometimes they snatched food deliveries dropped from Soviet airplanes intended for Soviet troops and it was canned food with "made in the US" labels. They were somewhat annoyed that they were there supposed to be the last bastion of Western democracies against the Soviet Bolshevism and the US were feeding the Soviets. Anyways, it was good eating they said.

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Dude,

The Finns were fighting on the side of the NAZIs!!!! So forget that "last bastion of western Democracies" BS.

Ever hear of the saying.....The enemy of my enemy is my friend?

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Originally Posted by glauistean

The most obvious and glaring issues I see on this thread is the inability of many to accept the opinions of others.

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What is most disconcerting is

the fact that knowledge of topics is very low among many and they will just

jump right in without thought or rational thinking on a topic.

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Maybe you should consider that others often have opposing views, and the fact that it doesn't agree with your view doesn't make said view wrong, or due to lack of logical thought process.

This topic, and many others as or more caustic, have been discussed on the forums in the past. And though people respond with all types of differing views, it is very rare that someone throws out as many insults as yourself, including your attacking those or a person making a point you apparently didn't understand.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

Maybe you should consider that others often have opposing views, and the fact that it doesn't agree with your view doesn't make said view wrong, or due to lack of logical thought process.

This topic, and many others as or more caustic, have been discussed on the forums in the past. And though people respond with all types of differing views, it is very rare that someone throws out as many insults as yourself, including your attacking those or a person making a point you apparently didn't understand.

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Are you on anything psychotropic? Your post is exactly as stated in MY post until you get to the part about me being the culprit of name calling and the rest of the rabid group that you affiliate yourself with are mere lambs. I am pounding on your poor sensibilities.

God, save me but I do get a great amount of schadenfreude when reading posts such as this one.