Schumacher !!! Should he call it quits

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Originally Posted by truefan72

yes but qualifying isn't the race, being brilliant over one lap is not a sign of greatness or having the measure of your teammate, it is what you do on a sunday that counts the most and in that regard prost has the edge over senna.

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Well yes and no. Clearly what happens on a sunday is what counts the most, and in 1989, in races where both McLaren drivers finished, Senna finished ahead of Prost 7 times out of 8. When both drivers finished races in 1988, Senna also finished higher than Prost more often. So to suggest Prost was better on race day would be a questionable claim.


For me, Schumacher's defensive driving is something the younger drivers could learn a thing or two from this year. For me it has clearly been his strongest point considering that his outright pace has never been intimidating to rival teams thus far.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

When will Schumi beat Rosberg?

He beat him at Shanghai, Catalunya and Istanbul Park .

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And Monaco!

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Prost qualifying mid-grid was a race occurence. In his rookie year maybe, but after that you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he was outside the top ten.

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He specified that it was a t the beginning of the qualifying not at the end. It is so easy to jump to conclusions without first reading the posts carefully.

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Originally Posted by Saint Devote

When will Schumi beat Rosberg?

He beat him at Shanghai, Catalunya and Istanbul Park . In addition that Schumi has had issues such as a slow pit stop for example that cost him dearly and the screw-up in Valencia by the team.

This is adriver that has returned after a 3 season retirement to a NEW ERA of control tyres and no testing racing against drivers where hundreths of a second can make a hero one minute look like zero the next.

And you look at Schumi's performance in such a short period and have the audacity to sneer at him?

You ought to be ashamed of yourself for not only expecting the mystical but for not knowing better.

Anyone that has been prepared to take time to understand who Schumi is and HOW he works would agree that he is doing fine and is dialling everything in.

You know, I remember the days of Prost when he would throughout practice and at the start of qualifying be no better than mid-grid. He would be criticized - look how slow and so on while the others ...... Get the picture.

Then he would suddenly be up to speed. Those who understood how Prost worked, HAD to work - who he is - never criticized.

It is the ignorant that slam Schumi and in return I pick up a metaphorical Ferrari and throw it at them!

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I was just going off the fact everyone expected JV to beat Alonso after 3 races. They call him sh!t for not doing so.

Are we on the double standard
Yes I think so - Villeneuve does not cheat
If you can't handle reality then sobeit.

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Originally Posted by ioan

He specified that it was at the beginning of the qualifying not at the end.

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Yes, I'm well aware of that ioan. The point I was making, in response to SD raising the subject of Alain Prost, was that until Senna arrived at McLaren Prost had been top dog and, more often then not, quicker than his team-mates. The same goes for Michael Schumacher throughout his career.

Senna made clear his intent to beat Prost, who he saw as the best driver in F1 at the time. In the same team and the same car Senna's view was by beating the best he would be seen as the best. Prost soon saw this, and soon realised there wasn't much point trying to beat Senna in qualifying; much better to focus on his own race pace. Timesheets during practice and qualifying weren't his main concern.

Now, relating this to Michael Schumacher's return, I was wondering if Michael may have realised that it was unlikely, after three years away and given his age, he was going to beat his team-mate on Saturday. So, my theory goes, he would work more on race pace than qualifying speed. That would go some way to explaining Nico's dominance in qualifying.

In other words Schumacher, like Prost, recognised his limitations but directed his considerable talent in another direction. That approach worked for Prost in 1989, but it is not working for Michael Schumacher.

MS to stay in 2011:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85423

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Prost qualifying mid-grid was a race occurence. In his rookie year maybe, but after that you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he was outside the top ten.

Prost was often slower than Senna in qualifying, but that still invariably meant he was on the first couple of rows of the grid. But you're right that when faced with the speed of Senna at McLaren he concentrated on his race pace during qualifying and that often served him well come Sunday. In fact, he has more fastest race laps than anyone except Schumacher.

You might argue that Schumi had adopted Prost's approach - he's been comprehensively outqualified by Rosberg - if he had produced the race pace and results, but he hasn't.

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I did not mean to infer that he qualified mid-grid - just that he would be around mid-grid during qualifying while the other top drivers would be already vying for pole. Then he would be ready and suddenly be in the top two.

Yes, he did concentrate on his race pace and where Senna has the much higher pole position score, Prost has the much higher fastest lap score.

I think that Schumi is still trying to fathom a solution to the rules as they are. But really with so many media people attacking him and all the sensationalist stories being published - where is the proper journalist that will respectfully sit down with the great champion and ask serious sensible questions for people like myself who are really IINTERESTED in what Schumi is doing and would honestly be delighted to see him succeed.

I really do hope that this is a great German Grand Prix weekend for him. It would just be mega for motor racing - in my view ALL people that truly love this sport would be pleased.

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Originally Posted by wedge

The greats transcend the car, they out drive it more consistantly than most. Schumi has 'lost' this ability.

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It is not possible anymore to do that - in the traditional sense - and has not been for a long time.

When Schumi won he had spent THREE years developing it at a time when as much testing as desired was allowed - remember all those weeks and months he spent at Fiorano, actually moving into the Enzo premises and living at the track? The midnight trips to the town to buy pizza for the whole team as they analyzed the day's results - then up at 5am amd back to testing?

In addition he had Bridgestone trying to cater to his every request and with the tyre war the competition was great having tyres on the limit.

If Schumi is trying to mould the car to what he wants then it WILL be difficult to get to the psoition so many are already expecting.

That is why it is important to speak to Schumi to hear what he says. Change comes slowly these days without testing. I know it can be difficult to understand for many people, but it is conceivable that Schumi is actually doing BETTER than Rosberg - which is why he is also looking to begin working on the 2011 car. Rosberg drives but Schumi also develops the car.

I say that Schumi is using 2010 as his test session and the proper phase of his return only begins in 2011.

This is Schumacher and that is how he works - as does Brawn - based on logic and reason, step by step.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

greatness is what you achieved in F1 and not hinged on the slightly diminished form at the tail end of one's career. Yes some folks think MSC is tarnishing his legend by returning to F1 and not dominating,but I still think it is too early to judge that. If he sticks around for next year and Mercedes get things sorted out, he might yet have a few wins left in him. If he decides to hang it up at the end of the year, I would not view this year as an embarrassment or blot on his career, but rather as an icon coming back for one last taste of the F1 life and this time around driving as one of the guys on the grid rather than the pressure and expectations of winning the WDC. I think MSC is quite enjoying himself this year, despite what some may think of him.

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I find myself agreeing with you yet again (which is odd ;) )
I've taken some shots at Mike, but only with the knowledge that it cannot diminish what he has already achieved. I know there are a lot of F1 enthusiasts that would like to think that this season will diminish what he has already done, but it can't. Only a tabloid mentality will view it that way. Some who wanted to see him succeed, and some that do not. Check the record book then think about it. That's what people will remember about him in the long run. That is why I can have a little fun posting jibes at him. I know what his legacy will be.
And as TF stated I think Mike is having fun being back!

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Originally Posted by Tazio

I find myself agreeing with you yet again (which is odd ;) )
I've taken some shots at Mike, but only with the knowledge that it cannot diminish what he has already achieved. I know there are a lot of F1 enthusiasts that would like to think that this season will diminish what he has already done, but it can't. Only a tabloid mentality will view it that way. Some who wanted to see him succeed, and some that do not. Check the record book then think about it. That's what people will remember about him in the long run. That is why I can have a little fun posting jibes at him. I know what his legacy will be.
And as TF stated I think Mike is having fun being back!

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So true. Only people like Ioan would jump to that kind of conclusions