That's good! Think of how many more times you'd be right if you agreed with me more. :eek: And please quite winking at me!Quote:
Originally Posted by DanicaFan
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That's good! Think of how many more times you'd be right if you agreed with me more. :eek: And please quite winking at me!Quote:
Originally Posted by DanicaFan
There both very talented but I would have to say Kyle has him covered.
Harvick drives for himself with very-little to no Chevy help, Kyle Busch drives for Joe Gibbs that is Toyota backed.Quote:
Originally Posted by TURN3
the one thing you can watch Kyle, especially in the Cup Series is while he may be fast in the short runs, he falls off fast all the time, but thanks to Nascar throwing random debris cautions all the time, he gets the benefit of not having long green runs all the time.
also RCR has not been the team that has ever been forceful since Earnhardt died. they have struggled behind Hendrick/Gibbs and Roush, they really had big problems on the cookie cutters but as this season has been, look who the point leader is and who has the most top 10's so far in the Cup series.
also Denny Hamlin is a much better driver than Kyle, IMO, on short runs, Kyle maybe one of the best, but as the long runs go, he torches his tires every time and never learns.
hell, most of the guys in the garage think Harvick is one of the best behind Johnson.
look at Kyles states before and after Toyota backing, and you'll find some crazy numbers in that, as Toyota loves spending tons of money on racing programs, and with Gibbs being the #1 in the stable, they get the major advantages from Toyota
the Southern 500 will always be the fall race, when Darlington in the summer heat seperated the men from the boys. There is no more Southern 500's until Darlington gets a 2nd date or they move the one race back to the fall.Quote:
Originally Posted by slorydn1
I feel your pain, and agree for the most part. But, it seems that for statistical purposes, NASCAR is counting the 500 mile races from 2005 on as the Southern 500 (remember, the early season race had been a 400 miler for years when they were running two races a year) and a win at Darlington is still one of the toughest to get (our guy still hasn't gotten it done, yet, in any series!)Quote:
Originally Posted by harvick#1
Potential is a dime-a-dozen. Tell me how good Kyle is when he has actually won a Championship.
Same goes for Harvick thenQuote:
Originally Posted by muggle not
The comparison of the 2 is what has come up here and slory posted the facts as they are. The rest is subject to opinion...but much like when pointing out how somebody like Danica has failed her entire career...STATS DONT'T LIE. Excuses like Toyota has a better program, and this team is better than that team...all that is sour grapes. Unless you're in a Hendrick car, you're not in a top team. Since when did Gibbs get mentioned in a conversation with Hendrick any differently than RCR or Roush?
Bottom line is from the actual stats that have been posted here, Kyle has accomplished the same if not more than Harvick in less time. Compare the stats anyway you want, win %, total wins, etc. It all tells the same story. So for somebody to say Kyle Busch wears his tires out blah blah blah...sure does win a lot with worn tires!
I thought I read where somoene posted that Kyle was one of the 3 best drivers in Cup. That was where I was coming from when I posted that Kyle has won "zip" Championships. Gordon and Jimmie Johnson have won 4 each and Tony has won several. How do you possibly rate Kyle above them.Quote:
Originally Posted by TURN3
I think I said a few posts ago that he is one of the top 3 most talented...that is my opinion and its shared widely. Being the most talented isn't necessarily the best. Jeff Gordon has 4 championships but what has he done the past 7 years or so? Notta! So is he still one of the 2 best considering only he and Jimmy have 4 championships? If measuring how good somebody were was as simple as just counting championships there would be universal logic...and that isn't the case. My opinion is Kyle and Montoya are about as talented of drivers there are in the world...and you'll hear media and competitors say that about every week. Can you imagine Montoya in a competitive rig? He's got the quickest reflexes of anybody driving cup according to JJ himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by muggle not
Let me add that only Labonte, Gordon, Johnson, Kenseth, Ku. Busch, and Stewart are apparently the only good drivers in Cup...they're the only past champions (unless I left one out).
Quote:
Originally Posted by muggle not
And for Mark Martin; Kasey Kahne; Denny Hamlin; Jeff Burton; Carl Edwards; Greg Biffle; Ryan Newman; Dale Earnhardt, Jr ;Quote:
Originally Posted by TURN3
Do any of them suck (fan preferences aside?)
Mark Martin has won 95 races in the three top series, 40 of those in the Cup Series. Finished p2 last year (and won 5 races). Has finished p2 in the standings 5 times-but 1 team always seems to do it better in that year, and its always someone different-Dale Earnhardt, Sr, (1990,1994) Jeff Gordon (1998), Tony Stewart (2002), Jimmie "4-time" Johnson (2009)...5 times over a 19 year span. But yep-come back and talk to me when he wins a Championship
Kasey Kahne must really suck. He has only won 20 times, only 11 of those in the cup series. Rick Hendrick has to be a total idiot to want to bring him aboard along side another total failure-
Dale Earnhardt, Jr 40 wins (18 of those in the Cup Series) 2 time Nationwide Series Champion, Daytona 500 winner-but unable to win the almighty Cup Championship
Jeff Burton-48 wins (21 of those in the Cup Series) Like Kasey Kahne- he must really be the lowest of the low...Hasn't won the championship in any series-
Denny Hamlin-has won 5 cup races this year alone, 23 total wins (13 in the Cup Series) but no Championships in any series
I could go on and on with all of the drivers I named-every one of them have won double digit races in the Cup Series, some of them have one 1 or more championships in the lower series-and yes, add both Harvick and Busch to this list.
The teams they drive for have alot to do with it. As Turn3 says all teams but Hendrick have up and down years.
Nascar and their media "partners" have made it all about the almighty Cup championsip. Heck, Nascar even dreamed up a freakin playoff system to be just like stick and ball sports. Why even bother giving out trophys for race wins anymore, since they really don't mean anything . Nascar wants to be the NFL? When my beloved Chicago Bears pound the Detroit Lions into submission in week 1 at Soldier Field this year are they gonna get a trophy? No. They'll get a tick in the win column which could help with their playoff seeding when the time comes. Oh and Dan Marino sucks, too-the NFL Hall of Fame selection committee must be a real bunch of idots-he has no championship rings. :p :
Heck, I'm fast becoming of a mind that drivers don't win championships- crew chief's do. But thats the subject for a whole different thread, isn't it.
That said-Kyle Busch-and I am not a real fan of his- is one of the best talents to come down the pike in a long time; and Harvick who has been saddled with subpar cars more often than not over his career is pretty darn good too. And so is Kasey Kahne, Denny Hamlin, Carl Edwards, Ryan Newman, and Greg Biffle. Given the right circumstances, and a Chad Knaus type CC, anyone of these dirivers could win the Cup Championship-some probably will whenever Chad decides retire....Some of these may win multiple times.
This is not meant to be a smack down, but a reality check. It shows just how screwed up the sport has become.