BRSCC response

Folks,

BRSCC are monitoring this forum and are aware of the feelings and sentiments regarding the weekend. However they cannot and will not comment on a public forum but I have been asked to pass on a message that Bernie Cottrall (BRSCC Chairman) will welcome the chance to explain the position if you correspond with him by email bernard@brscc.co.uk. Please keep it civil and have a open discussion.

Disclaimer. I am not an official of The BRSCC but will act as intermediary when required, any views I express are entirely my own and have no links with any organisation or official view.

Regards to all.
Ian

Thanks for the email address.

Good work as always.

Thanks for your help Ian and quite correct, we should not expect them to post on an open forum.

Regards
Ray

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Originally Posted by Chigley

Folks,

However they cannot and will not comment on a public forum but I have been asked to pass on a message that Bernie Cottrall (BRSCC Chairman) will welcome the chance to explain the position if you correspond with him by email bernard@brscc.co.uk. Please keep it civil and have a open discussion.

Regards to all.
Ian

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unfortunately, i still haven't been able to attend any meetings even though i make all the preparations just in case but what i'm reading is NOT helping me to risk the journey.
as so many fans and teams seem to be more than a shade miffed at what occurred over the weekend i'm surprised that bernard doesn't issue a statement which could go some way to answering questions AND THEN take individual follow up questions. at least that way he can cut down on the number of 2 way communications with the same questions/ concerns and replies being exchanged. he could then do a follow up statement summarising the exchanges.
to not have an open exchange (or make a statement) on this forum(or in the media) only goes to reinforce the view that these clubs are just that and stuck in the dark ages. if you're not part of it you don't get a say even as a paying spectator who helps to keep the club's(and it's members') costs down. the spectator seems to be treated as a bonus rather than someone who should be an integral part of an event.

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Originally Posted by acorn

the spectator seems to be treated as a bonus rather than someone who should be an integral part of an event.

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The word you were looking for there is a "hindrance" not bonus.

Having spectators at a normal club meeting requires marshaling/security to "handle them", since the club normally receives no revenue from those paying punters, that's how they have to view them in the cold reality of a commercial world. Spectators COST money to handle/feed/clean up after....

With over 24hrs now to reflect on the matter, it drives home what I have said for a long time. The way that motorsport is run in the UK is in general totally wrong. Only Castle Combe has it right - running their own meetings, and the competitors reap the benefits of well organised meetings with rebates to their entry fees, and I'm sure that with enough people through the gate, Steve and Howard would be more than pleased to PAY the competitors for putting on a good show for their loyal spectators and fans.

Rockingham did have their heart in the right place once, but threw money in the wrong places, at the teams, at superstar drivers, rather than at the mass media to encourage Mr Joseph Public and his family to visit, instead of watching Abingdon under-12's, or sitting at home watching 600 channels of Sky with nothing on!

Alfie knows how people love a day a the races (of the 4-legged variety), and much of that is achieved by good media attention in the daily papers.

Please listen. Please change. We can help you, we have the product - you have the "shop", let's sell it together.

Rob.

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Originally Posted by racing59

The way that motorsport is run in the UK is in general totally wrong. Only Castle Combe has it right - running their own meetings, and the competitors reap the benefits of well organised meetings

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I say let Incarace have a shot at running the show for a year. Like I said elsewhere, Ovalfest last year was a decent draw; let's have a mini version oft hat every month with a big Motorfest finale in September/October...

That means stepping outside of the MSA/FIA umbrella and then no chance of going to Lausitz.

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Originally Posted by Abo

I say let Incarace have a shot at running the show for a year. Like I said elsewhere, Ovalfest last year was a decent draw; let's have a mini version oft hat every month with a big Motorfest finale in September/October...

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No, No, NO!

Point taken, racing59, but I agree with Abo. We're talking about survival here.
BRSCC is not working in the best interests of SCSA/PUT and an alliance with short oval guys thru Incarace could be the answer. There are lots of short oval tracks in the RMS catchment area whose fans are already committed to our style of racing.
I'm sure some of these tracks would love a return visit for PUT racing even if not for SCSA.
I'm not saying it will work, all I'm saying is check it out.
As for Lausitz I feel that dream is dead. They never produced a team even in the good old days and the cost to teams visiting there would be prohibitive.

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Originally Posted by racing59

That means stepping outside of the MSA.

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We have done it before.. well, for the Stock Cars at least anyway..

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Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

No, No, NO!

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Why not?

Lausitz is not dead. Far from it in fact.

If they wanted us there, and without a silly entry fee, it would cost us no more to go there and run than it will to stay here and pay a silly entry fee.

In fact there's no reason why there couldn't be two meetings back to back in Germany, with us leaving the cars & kit out there between them - thus slashing the costs.

I would be extremely happy to do two or three rounds here, and two rounds over there, plus another Ovalfest/Motorfest. That would make a good championship.

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Originally Posted by racing59

Lausitz is not dead. Far from it in fact.

If they wanted us there, and without a silly entry fee, it would cost us no more to go there and run than it will to stay here and pay a silly entry fee.

In fact there's no reason why there couldn't be two meetings back to back in Germany, with us leaving the cars & kit out there between them - thus slashing the costs.

I would be extremely happy to do two or three rounds here, and two rounds over there, plus another Ovalfest/Motorfest. That would make a good championship.

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Sadly that would make it difficult for some of your die hard fans here to follow the whole series. Part of the draw for us is that it is mainly a Rockingham based championship which makes it accessible for us.(aside from the noise, the smell, the atmosphere etc.. :) )

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Originally Posted by Vipros500

We have done it before.. well, for the Stock Cars at least anyway..

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I think that the only place I would be tempted to go, outside of the MSA, for a "demonstration" would be Warneton.

I Too have been asked to pass on a message for calm.

the sending of emails has to be done with a levelhead please, a lady who is in charge of the cateram's has a recieved a very hostile letter and has left her very upset, this of course is unacceptable and does not promote our cause at all, im told the person in question who sent the email is known to the BRSCC and is from the grandstands, not the teams, and will be contacted.

more to come later about the V8's but right now im too busy mopping up......

Duane

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Originally Posted by Duane

A lady who is in charge of the cateram's has a recieved a very hostile letter and has left her very upset, this of course is unacceptable and does not promote our cause at all, im told the person in question who sent the email is known to the BRSCC and is from the grandstands, not the teams, and will be contacted.

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That is truly unfortunate Duane.

I just hope that the folks recieving the letters and emails of complaint don't tar us all with the same brush. In the whole, most of us who have lodged complaints have done so in a civilised manner. Everyone is entitled to complain, but there is a line beyond which one should not venture.

Well said Witty.

While I felt, like many others, bitter as hell yesterday, but I would draw the line at bitter and twisted abusive emails or letters of that sort.

Complaints, if lodged, have to be logical, rational, and clear. Not rants, threats, or abusive.

Rob.

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Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

No, No, NO!

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I totally agree Simon. NO, NO, NO.

Reasons, and correct me (politely) if I'm wrong.

Run outside of the MSA jurisdiction and we loss a thorough chain of support, appeal and jurisdiction. You could not operate with any MSA licensed official, or marshal, we are not insured and I for one am not putting my life on the line without damn good insurance and support behind me. Incarace could not hold a candle against the protection and support I get from being a MSA registered marshal.

You will automatically lose the PuT as they are a BARC championship and Sonny is astute enough not to lose that connection especially with the circuits that the PuT have access to by virtue of being a BARC club.

The V8's will flounder, wilt and die without the PuT, they are not strong enough at the moment to go it alone.

Sorry but IMHO it is a no brainer to even consider the idea.

I know the BRSCC people who are running the SCSA championship, talk to them, they listen and take note. Do you remember the debacle of the first meeting last year, virtually every marshal was going to walk and abandon oval racing, a lot did, however the BRSCC listened to our dialogue and changed things quickly to improve matters.

Before anyone thinks of me as a BRSCC stool pigeon let me inform you that I am not a BRSCC member and in general avoid their meetings for personal reasons, but I am ardently enthusiastic of PuT, SCSA V8 oval racing and Rockingham and will do everything that I can to help them flourish.

I have a position where I can communicate with both sides without bias, allegiance or conflict of interest and will assist anyone in overcoming this "glitch".

Ian

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Originally Posted by Vipros500

We have done it before.. well, for the Stock Cars at least anyway..

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May I ask when and where? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Chigley

Before anyone thinks of me as a BRSCC stool pigeon let me inform you that I am not a BRSCC member and in general avoid their meetings for personal reasons, but I am ardently enthusiastic of PuT, SCSA V8 oval racing and Rockingham and will do everything that I can to help them flourish.

I have a position where I can communicate with both sides without bias, allegiance or conflict of interest and will assist anyone in overcoming this "glitch". Ian

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-likewise-

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Originally Posted by Chigley

I totally agree Simon. NO, NO, NO.

Run outside of the MSA jurisdiction and we loss a thorough chain of support, appeal and jurisdiction. You could not operate with any MSA licensed official, or marshal, we are not insured and I for one am not putting my life on the line without damn good insurance and support behind me. Incarace could not hold a candle against the protection and support I get from being a MSA registered marshal.

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Key words for me are support and jurisdiction. Incarace operate outside any form of authority (somebody please correct me with evidence if I am wrong) and therefore are open to being prosecuted (both as a company and individuals working their events) should anyone (including public) be injured or killed at a race event.

The level of monetry support Incarace get (I believe) for Motorfest is significant, and I would put forward the promotion (or not) of the National Championship weekend coming up at an Incarace track in two weeks as Incarace's normal level of advance promotion of events (specifically, they have no information on ticket prices, camping, etc this close to the event).

"I know the BRSCC people who are running the SCSA championship, talk to them, they listen and take note. Do you remember the debacle of the first meeting last year, virtually every marshal was going to walk and abandon oval racing, a lot did, however the BRSCC listened to our dialogue and changed things quickly to improve matters."
Chigley, while I respect your views and bow to your greater knowledge on the subject and motor racing in general I feel I must disagree with your above statement.
On Sunday I saw no evidence of BRSCC working in the best interests of SCSA, in fact my impression was the opposite.

I can't believe someone wrote to the organiser of the Caterham championship and complained enough to upset them. That's well out of order! Especially after they put on such a good show. As Witty said we need to keep a level head and definately not go upsetting people and burning bridges.

On the Lautsitz subject, I'd like a holiday in Germany and I'm sure a few of the regular fans would feel the same.

Incarace are part of this "International Drivers Organisation" or whatever it's called, which is a sort of "alternative" to the FIA/MSA, covering things like track based stunts, etc....

They've probably spent all of their money on Motorfest, and just rely on "local knowledge" and experience to cover the rest.

Regardless of that, they ARE promoting their events 1000000% more than just about every form of national motorsport (other than the BTCC with it's multi-million point manufacturer backing).

Returning to a Chigley point earlier.. we need more marshals, it's something that's affecting motorsport in general, and I'd say that the lack of promotion of motorsport to the masses is party to the lack of marshals. If people do not know that they can go and do it, then they just won't be there.

I reckon the mainstream TV should have a "freebie" advert slot every now and then during peak viewing times where causes like this can get their subject aired at little or no cost. Or perhaps the marshals club should start hounding the news dogs to get some airtime - if it's on the back of the successes of Lewis Hamilton, then so be it. Make it so No.1.

Rob.

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Originally Posted by racing59

Incarace are part of this "International Drivers Organisation" or whatever it's called, which is a sort of "alternative" to the FIA/MSA, covering things like track based stunts, etc....

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Can you provide anything 'concrete' to back this up, Rob? (I'm assuming you mean IOPD - IOPD.org)

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Originally Posted by The White Lady

Sadly that would make it difficult for some of your die hard fans here to follow the whole series. Part of the draw for us is that it is mainly a Rockingham based championship which makes it accessible for us.(aside from the noise, the smell, the atmosphere etc.. :) )

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I don't have a problem at all with the series going to Lausitz. If it does anything to improve the profile and encourage more sponsors, drivers and teams, that has to be good for the series.

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Originally Posted by racing59

Returning to a Chigley point earlier.. we need more marshals, it's something that's affecting motorsport in general, and I'd say that the lack of promotion of motorsport to the masses is party to the lack of marshals. If people do not know that they can go and do it, then they just won't be there.

I reckon the mainstream TV should have a "freebie" advert slot every now and then during peak viewing times where causes like this can get their subject aired at little or no cost. Or perhaps the marshals club should start hounding the news dogs to get some airtime - if it's on the back of the successes of Lewis Hamilton, then so be it. Make it so No.1.

Rob.

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The reason there are less marshals is that there is a national problem with volunteering - just ask a few charities. It is a constant battle to get people to give their time for free. The issue with the lack of marshals only reflects the issue of volunteering in general.

Julian

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Originally Posted by racing59

I reckon the mainstream TV should have a "freebie" advert slot every now and then during peak viewing times where causes like this can get their subject aired at little or no cost. Or perhaps the marshals club should start hounding the news dogs to get some airtime - if it's on the back of the successes of Lewis Hamilton, then so be it. Make it so No.1.

Rob.

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Good old martin brundle and co seem to be pluging marshaling at the moment on the f1 show,s (but to marshal f1 thay have to start at grass roots level for a while, and will take a while to do f1)
The trouble is a lot of people judge motorsport by what thay see on tv, Which is a different world apart from say..750MC, LEGENDS, PUT,S, NORTH GLOUCESTER ECT....to name but a few where a lot action is.

I agree with your comment regarding volunteering.
I blame Tesco's. If they didn't open on Sundays, nobody else would, and we'd get our hallowed day of racing/gardening/sunday lunch/down the pub/Egyptian PT/etc.. back again!!!

One of my friends is a scoutmaster, and according to figures he has, there is a waiting list of something like 30000 kids trying to get into the scouting movement. Adults don't want to get involved because of the legal crud that goes with it - all of the police checks, social services delving into your affairs, etc.. and then being under the spotlight, open to the slightest malicious allegation which may ruin their lives/careers etc... so they don't bother.

Had I got more time at the weekend events, I'd come out and give you a hand.

Rob.

Like Rob, and many others, I have too many other calls on my time to do any marshalling thse days - maybe if I finally give up the daily grind before the old body does?? However, I do have a question and I would like to hear Ians views. The marshalling at a pure oval event must be much less onerous than where cars are wandering all over the Corby countryside. We have the yellow lights and apart from a small number of comms equiped observers on the bend exits, and our superb safety crews and flag stand operator of course, I venture to suggest that we should be able to get by with that degree of lesser cover for such oval only events. Would oval-only meetings be easier to promote because of that, and is that what we would want? I gather that the BGs could just about manage full circuits and even the legends might be able to do it as well, although they might just get a bit breathless trying. And we have always got good old Terry Grant, maybe the odd noisy dragster from across the next county and there are always the wheelie bin racers to try again! Perhaps in trying to get events with lots of wandering races BRSCC are making life more complicated than it needs to be to meet our simple needs - or do they have club sections that will always jump at the chance to go fast at such a great facility - oops, nerve ending alert?

Wheelie bin racing is a national sport at the capital of suffolk, trouble is the wheels fly off about 60 mph, and then the sparks fly and make one heck of a noise!!!! i'm up for some wheelie bin racing at Rockingham!

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Originally Posted by GeeBee2

I can't believe someone wrote to the organiser of the Caterham championship and complained enough to upset them. That's well out of order! Especially after they put on such a good show. As Witty said we need to keep a level head and definately not go upsetting people and burning bridges.

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Graham, I just hope to goodness that the culprit isn't a member of this forum... :s

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Originally Posted by Old Stock Nut

The marshalling at a pure oval event must be much less onerous than where cars are wandering all over the Corby countryside. We have the yellow lights and apart from a small number of comms equiped observers on the bend exits, and our superb safety crews and flag stand operator of course, I venture to suggest that we should be able to get by with that degree of lesser cover for such oval only events.

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As the "comms equipped observer" on Turn 4 I can assure you it is NOT less onerous than being on 'The Bank' at conventional race meetings. Safety is paramount. Doing the job of what usually would be 3 pepole is not an easy task. Who do you think calls for the yellow lights? Come down and join me on Turn 4 and I think you might change your mind on a degree of lesser coverage.

Rant over

Whoa gal calm down, I think I know where Brian is coming from and will answer fully tomorrow.

Hi OSN,

What you suggest would be less onerous if we had a full compliment of marshals monitoring the oval and also had viable teams manning the infield posts.

As it is we are on a frayed shoestring for both so I'm afraid the load is even more onerous. To man the oval to a level that would be acceptable in the States we would have a team of marshals manning both the Turn x In and the Turn x Out posts, these teams should comprise of an observer, a communicator and an assistant who rotate their roles on post according to ability and experience. The observer concentrates solely on the traffic that has left the previous sector and watches everything closely up to but not beyond his shoulder. The communicator passes on to RC any observations that the observer has; the assistant scans the track as a second pair of eyes for the observer and also looks out for debris, oil etc................ So on Rockingham's oval we should have at 24 marshals, we are lucky these days to get more than four. It is normal for us to only man the Turn x Out posts with one person who does the work of six in the States. It is very onerous, very demanding, dangerous and the concentration, instant memory recall and accurate reporting of incidents required is incredible. The additional factor that makes oval marshalling more difficult is that you are right on top of (at times no more than two feet) cars that are travelling in excess of 150mph so your sight of cars and incidents is akin to the speed that a flash gun goes off, darn quick!

Conversely the infield posts are also usually manned single handedly and there the guys/lasses have to observer, report, flag, attend to errant drivers who have fallen off the black stuff, and tend to debris (when safe to do so) and potential fires. This is usually done by an observer, a pair of flaggies and a minimum of two incident/course marshals.

Oval only events could not happen as they would be uneconomical to run with the current Oval racing license holder (BRSCC). The BRSCC only gain income, to offset the track hire from Rockingham, from race entry fees which limits them to SCSA and PuT racing on the oval at the moment. Other formulae are capable of running on the Oval and are MSA sanctioned e.g. F3. but do not do so, therefore additional racing is provided to add entertainment and income by use of the infield running additional BRSCC championships. Believe it or not the other BRSCC championships are queueing up to race at Rockingham they like it so much! It also provides a diversity of racing that is more appealing to the general public, although not neccesarily to the diehard oval fans.

Cheers
Ian

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Originally Posted by Jordygirl

As the "comms equipped observer" on Turn 4 I can assure you it is NOT less onerous than being on 'The Bank' at conventional race meetings.

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I thought you did a good job on Sunday...especially flapping your black floppy ears on your hat to the beat of the music...lol....assuming that was you?? I take it you were trying to keep cool? We were up in T4 stand getting sunburnt while you were dodging the minibus :)

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Originally Posted by R3ROK

I thought you did a good job on Sunday...especially flapping your black floppy ears on your hat to the beat of the music.

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:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

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Originally Posted by Reynard

Graham, I just hope to goodness that the culprit isn't a member of this forum... :s

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just so people know, i know the "culprit" and he is not a member of this or any other forum. i have seen the email the culprit had sent and quite honestly it is not threatning at all, the culprit was expressing his view and has since appologised to the person in question, for his email. i am in persesion of his season pass which he has passed to me to return, although i wont yet through haste, of which he has been a member since 2001 and will not visit rockingham again- unless something is sorted out with the series. i will not name names, all i will say he is a member of the boys in blue (ne nor ne nor) in northamptonshire and has never missed a race at the rock since its opening as far as i know.

T4M do you know if he has expressed himself to Bernie Cottrell, he may calm down if he heard the full scenario :) likewise anyone else who had issues with the weekend.

All I can say is that I also was disappointed at how the weekend finished.

:)

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Originally Posted by Chigley

T4M do you know if he has expressed himself to Bernie Cottrell, he may calm down if he heard the full scenario :) likewise anyone else who had issues with the weekend.

All I can say is that I also was disappointed at how the weekend finished.

:)

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i will ask and let you know, then i will say no more on the matter, like us all we were all annoyed at the weekend, but we have to look forward to the next one now.