Does anyone know when or if the IRL is slated to go to a new chassis?
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Does anyone know when or if the IRL is slated to go to a new chassis?
Hey Tony....Don Panoz is waiting for a phone call.
I believe 2008 will be the new chassis year.
yeah but from who?
Starter, I don't think there is any legal requirement than a private entity put something our for bid. The league could simply decide on one or more chassis suppliers and ask them to design according to a set of specs. Or, they could do what they have done in the past, just put out a series of specs, ask for designs for approval, then select one to three as approved chassis suppliers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
But there is no reason to put the process out for bid in the traditional sense, and certainly no legal requirement to do so.
I couldn't remember if it was '08 or '09. If it's '08 that means they have to start the process soon, and announce around Indy.Quote:
Originally Posted by wastegate
not for sure when but I think we've seen it a few threads up
Rumor has it they like the Lola that CC turned down. With a Honda Turbo?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
I bet Lola like the look of the IRL too. Their markets have been taken off them in the last few years with Panoz in at ChampCar and Dallara in GP2.
A new IRL chassis that happens to meet CC specs with a Honda Turbo powerplant. Let's get ready for the merger speculators.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Remember that CC went with Panoz due to the lower cost compared to the Lola (which BTW I also liked the Lola chassis better). I wonder if they would go with the Lola even though it costs more?Quote:
Originally Posted by weeflyonthewall
It may not cost more. They didn't get the bid for ChampCar and Tamburello mentioned losing out in GP2. They may be hungrier and willing to work on a lower gross margin %.Quote:
Originally Posted by CCFan
As we saw with the Panoz, costs are coming down on these technologies. With a couple years elapsed, Lola may be able to shave off a significant portion of their costs.
As an aside, I heard someone on the radio (NPR) talking about how carbon fiber is likely to begin appearring in mainstream production vehicles in the relatively near future. His group has figured out how to implement it into production in a way that it will drastically reduce production costs (and introduced that technology to the public domain). This will also greatly reduce vehicle weight and that fuel useage. (Sorry, i didn't catch his name.)
I think if they go to Panoz, then the merger talk will be deafening. The new DP 01 is a good looking race car, so aesthetically, it would be a step up over the current IRL car, but I don't know if it has an oval package. I suspect it does, but CCWS doesn't seem to be into the oval thing right now (I think it is an error but Iam just a fan, what do I know?). That said, I am sure it can run ovals with a few changes and maybe the IRL would buy a DP-01a? If they don't go to Panoz, the Lola might work, or maybe Dallara will have a new design to put out there? There is nothing to stop the IRL from buying anything as the spec car, but I think no matter what they do, they better make the right decision. The wrong car could hurt the series...
Did anyone here see the pictures of the Panoz open wheeler with the airbox? It had been ripped off the WRX site by the time I went there (and the Elan Motorsports employee run through with a bayonet?), but apparently it looked very much like a DP01 with an airbox.
Things that make you go, Hmmmmm........
They were on the Panoz DP-01 thread atQuote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
http://www.rallyforum.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=113180
but they seem to be gone now. Gotta be quick ;-)
Could be a proposal for IRL, but could also be A1GP, GP2, or even Grand Prix Masters.
Yeah, that's the one. It was originally on the WRX Atlanta site: http://www.wrxatlanta.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10854
Looks like the entire thread has now been removed. Several have said that the poster was fired from Panoz for posting that picture. It was a fairly stupid thing to do (and to have his name on the PhotoBucket picture), but I really hope he wasn't fired.
Remember the DP01 was in development when CC was still running ovals. And while CC is out of ovals this season, they haven't given up on ovals completely. With that in mind, I have to believe there is an "oval package" for the DP01.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
So is it with optimism or pessimism that we all speculate that the IRL could adopt the DP01?
Common sense (aka far-fetched optimism).Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC
Well put. Yeah, in this sport, "common sense" is an oxymoron.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZzZzZz
I personally think that as far as IRL getting a new chassis is concerned it will greatly depend on the health of the series, if grids are diminishing (as they seem to be currently) then a new chassis is the last thing they need as it just increases costs and as all the teams are now running Dallaras with Honda engines there is parity across the field, largely rendering a new chassis unnessarcery and with less cars in the field there will be a surplus supply of used chassis, which decreases costs.
I have never heard or read anything about the IRL getting or NOT getting a new chassis at any specific point. The current chassis has been updated several times through the years. I read a Barnhart quote saying the IRL was comfortable with the current chassis and an update kit was not necessary for '06.....haven't heard if anything is updated for '07.
As far as the DP-01 goes, I doubt if anybody knows the extent necessary to put an oval kit on one or if one would work on ovals anyway. That wasn't the mission for it. It was built as a road-racing car for a road-racing series. When they're just delivering it for the road-racing series, converting it for ovals must be WAY down the road in any such thinking, IMO.
FWIW - I jsut finished reading Dr. Steve Olvey's book and toward the end he mentions being contracted to help work on safety design issues for the new IRL car "due in 2007". So, if that is/was true at the time then I am guessing all bets are off for the time being...
Also, FWIW, I seem to remember Kalkhoven (or someone at champcar) making abig deal about the DP-01 being "oval ready" - whatever that means - so my best guess is that all it needs is a oval aero and suspension package and it is ready to go (only a guess)...
I kind of doubt that picture is of a proposed IRL car - the last thing either series is going to want if they are not going to merge is something to make them even less distinct... However, running both engines with some sort of equivalency formula would be a pretty interesting scenario for either/both /combined series.....
Last but not least - given the current state of AOWR - I don't think the IRL is under any big pressure to get a new car - CART/champcar proved you can get away with the same design for quite a while in a "spec" series - so why change if it is not necesary???
Chris, my point is, why would Panoz be spekking out an oval kit for the DP-01 when there are no ovals on the schedule and no one knows how it would work without some testing, anyway?
I agree - makes no sense to have an oval kit for 2007 and without ovals on the schedule... but perhaps the chassis is strong/safe enough for ovals??? I am guessing that is what they were referring to - as long as the tub is set up to deal with the stresses of oval racing a kit can follow in due course after appropriate design/testing etc. if necessary (as opposed to an F-1 car which might never be made acceptable on ovals due to fundamental design choices....)Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
We may know. We may never know.
IC, I think the DP 01 could be easily converted for ovals for one reason. KK wouldn't have the car not meet a minimal safety standard that could take a hit on ovals. The aero parts to run on an oval is just extra time and money that could be spent to adapt the car for ovals. They may not have an "oval package" but you know as well as I do that KK isn't going to invest all this money in a new chassis and not keep his options open. He knows that the IRL may need a new car some day, and he also knows that he doesn't want to slam the door shut on ovals if the market changes. A prudent business man thinks ahead, and KK is nothing but prudent....
Also, KK has been the one who has been open to merger talks, so he would also have that in the back of his mind when he asked Elan/Panoz to build a CCWS car.
I just read on the CC forum that a CC tech said the DP01 does have an oval package as part of the design.Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
I don't agree with your argument that CC would develop a chassis for street racing only. Why would they not design it with an oval package? If things "come together" down the road, CC would be shooting itself in the foot by not having a chassis that is capable of running ovals. I fail to see KK and Co. being that short sighted. Besides, I also don't agre that CC is giving up on ovals.
Doug, both CC and Panoz officials have said publicly and openly that no oval package currently exists for the DP-01, although one could be developed at a later date if necessary. And note that the post on the CC forum was very much second hand. An "I heard he said" kind of thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC
An oval package is worthless until it is tested, and tested in traffic, anyway. Until then it's just another developmental kit even if it does exist. And I am quite sure an oval kit has NOT been tested, or that would have been big news.
Oval wings and some mods are NOT rocket science people. The engineers that design race cars know all about what they are doing, and an oval just demands less downforce to make the racing interesting on ovals and force drivers to lay off the throttle instead of going flat out. That is something the IRL cars need to look at right now. I find most of their cookie cutter oval races are pretty much flat to the floor exercises, and that isn't racing people. That is just playing around in the draft like a NASCAR superspeedway event. IT is fun once in a while, but when half your races are packs, it just is a dangerous way to make a living, and I find it often dull after a while. The best races are on flat ovals... like Indy.
Did you forget the original specification for the DP01 included addressing oval safety concerns. Remember the big debate how the DP01 could have been lighter and nimbler if it were a purpose designed road racer? There was even talk about adding more horse power to the new Cosworth engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
Champ Car elected to incorporate oval-specific design requirements since ovals are still part of their forecasted future. If TG ever gets his head out of the sand, you never know what technology becomes common ground. The mere fact CC has at least one chassis positioned to fit the need of both series bodes well for the furture of open wheel in North America.
The most sensible approach for the IRL would be to develop a 2nd choice along the lines of the Lola. Hopefully they will set-up shop in the US so they can keep the costs down. The UK£ is killing the US$ right now in currency exchange.
All you have to do is look at the new tubs to know they are oval safe and oval ready. The oval package may not be available but you can bet they've been tested via CAE simulation just like they do in aerospace and Formula 1.
Guess if it ever gets necessary, we'll find out.
Pure double speak and nonsense. The IRL chassis was updated in an attempt to keep it from flying, and then it was updated (at huge expense) to enable it to go road racing. It is now a year overdue for replacement.Quote:
Originally Posted by indycool
There is absolutely nothing about the DP-01 that would make it unsuitable for oval racing, except the wishful thinking of the IRL fans that wish it, and Champ Car, would go away.
IYO.
Not at all. Despite all of the actual facts regarding the design of the DP-01, you and your ilk insist on trying to portray it as somehow unsuitable for ovals, without a scintilla of evidence to support such claims.
And it is true that the IRL had originally planned to have a new chassis for '06. You know that, IC.
Yes, Zzs, you're right. They did. Think it was the ongoing development of the car for road course kit and safety features plus cost, that probably they made an "ain't-broke-don't-fix-it" call.
We can be sure team owners weighed in with their opinions. Wasn't it IC that suggested CC team owners were taking a big risk investing in new chassis' when the series was on life support? I think that applies to anyone in US open wheel these days no matter where you place your allegiance.