Brazil TGTBaTU~

The Good:

Andretti Team! Off season changes and momentum from RHR championship have this put this team in position to win at every event. Huge
momentum going into Indy.

Sato and Foyt continue to be a potent duo.

SFHR and Newgarden had their best race.

The ugly DW12 is quite a racy car indeed!

New layout was quite good!

Will Phillips and his tech team for getting a spec that allows close competition and gives almost every team a chance to win.

Servia and another strong run! Side/side with Marco, was good stuff!

The first good start (and restarts) of the season! Everybody packed up and it reminded me of the starts we use to have back in the late 80’s! More please!!

The Bad:

TK running out of fuel.

Will Power’s luck. Fast at every venue, but nothing to show for it.

The Ugly:

Will Powers luck. Bad and Ugly....
Three hours of a NASCAR rain delay will have bigger TV ratings than this fantastic Indycar race.

The thought the DRR will not run after Indy. If they do leave the series, we will be down to only two of the original IRL teams (Foyt, Panther).

Team Penske’s and Ganassi’s luck has been horrible, leading to no wins through four races.

Race was very good, track is better, tv was ok.
Car is still but ugly and spec, Indycar should be a beast of speed and innovation.
This open wheel fan likes open wheels!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

Race was very good, track is better, tv was ok.
Car is still but ugly and spec, Indycar should be a beast of speed and innovation.
This open wheel fan likes open wheels!!!

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It will take money to get out of being a spec series, money we do not have. We lose one entry after Indy, and sadly more are on the fence.

That was a very good race, regardless of what the car looked like.

Maybe our interview with Josef Newgarden the Sunday before the race, gave him some luck..lol I hope he can carry this momentum into the 500.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

It will take money to get out of being a spec series, money we do not have. We lose one entry after Indy, and sadly more are on the fence.

That was a very good race, regardless of what the car looked like.

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Agree that race was good, no it was very good, but I think you know what Indycar was and should be! No money is lame excuse for not trying something new to develop and intrigue the world of racing and keep Indycar on the front page where it belongs!

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

No money is lame excuse for not trying something new

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Really? Then how do you propose to pay for this "something new"?

Gary

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

No money is lame excuse for not trying something new to develop and intrigue the world of racing and keep Indycar on the front page where it belongs!

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This issuch a tired and un-informed statement. It is 100% because of money!

We have been over this so many times before. We used to get newchassis/engines/electronics each and every year. We had four engine manufactures, and being one a team meant full time, year 'round employment forabout 95% of the teams. Each car, and spare car had an engine, ready to go. We did not have any limits in miles per engine, and we had practice, qualifying and race engines.

That does not happen anymore. We use the same chassis for eight years, we use the same electronics, and more than 50% teams furlough team members in the off season. We have two engine manufactures, but only the primary car is fitted with an engine. We have mile limits on the engine, and use the same engine over multiple weekends.

Sorry,100% due to money!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

This issuch a tired and un-informed statement. It is 100% because of money!

We have been over this so many times before. We used to get newchassis/engines/electronics each and every year. We had four engine manufactures, and being one a team meant full time, year 'round employment forabout 95% of the teams. Each car, and spare car had an engine, ready to go. We did not have any limits in miles per engine, and we had practice, qualifying and race engines.

That does not happen anymore. We use the same chassis for eight years, we use the same electronics, and more than 50% teams furlough team members in the off season. We have two engine manufactures, but only the primary car is fitted with an engine. We have mile limits on the engine, and use the same engine over multiple weekends.

Sorry,100% due to money!

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Ok then,enjoy .2 and boring old same! Spending money and building something for the future that fans would come out and pay to see is called investment. I know what you saying here and want Indycar to be the best period. What we have now is not working and if racing is good where is everyone? Why not open up kit development as promised and keep interest from every angle. Some here say that yung kids are not interested ,I agree, as it getting harder and harder for people like me to get excited and I love open wheel formulas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by garyshell

Really? Then how do you propose to pay for this "something new"?

Gary

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I agree, there is no money and is always cheaper to have nascar driver test take all the headlines and media attention for the big race instead of building a car that would make a statement. Enjoy!!!

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

I agree, there is no money and is always cheaper to have nascar driver test take all the headlines and media attention for the big race instead of building a car that would make a statement. Enjoy!!!

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Should we assume you have written your personal check to the series to help out? If not, why not?

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Originally Posted by Starter

Should we assume you have written your personal check to the series to help out? If not, why not?

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You assumed correctly, Actually I have wrote two checks, I'm going to Indy on qualifying and race day, going to Milwaukee and purchased pit pass and whole nine yards for the weekend with three of my Friends. Hate ovals and I can tell you it is not cheap, but if I was fortunate enough to be part of millionaire club that profits from the product I would write even bigger check to make it better. How about you? What's your contribution ? Should we assume defending lost cause or decided to say hello to loyal fans who just want a better product and glory that once was.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

You assumed correctly, Actually I have wrote two checks, I'm going to Indy on qualifying and race day, going to Milwaukee and purchased pit pass and whole nine yards for the weekend with three of my Friends. Hate ovals and I can tell you it is not cheap, but if I was fortunate enough to be part of millionaire club that profits from the product I would write even bigger check to make it better. How about you? What's your contribution ? Should we assume defending lost cause or decided to say hello to loyal fans who just want a better product and glory that once was.

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You haven't helped the series at all. All of that money goes to the promoters. Again, when are you going to send your money to the series, since you want them to spend theirs?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

Ok then,enjoy .2 and boring old same! Spending money and building something for the future that fans would come out and pay to see is called investment. I know what you saying here and want Indycar to be the best period. What we have now is not working and if racing is good where is everyone? Why not open up kit development as promised and keep interest from every angle. Some here say that yung kids are not interested ,I agree, as it getting harder and harder for people like me to get excited and I love open wheel formulas.

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You continue to miss the point. I agree with you, that i liked it better when we had new cars each year, four chassis mfgrs and four engine mfgrs. MONEY is the reason we don;t have that now.

Take a look at the example I gave of how things were, and how they are now. I'd love it to go back to how it was....BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not a lame excuse, just reality. Now, abut last weeks race...rather fantastic, no?

Who is forcing the series or teams to spend a dime

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starter

You haven't helped the series at all. All of that money goes to the promoters.

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Perhaps they should charge fees for the races therefore they can generate some revenue? What do you think? Good idea? I do appreciate Hulman-George family for love to the fans and doing races free of charge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

You continue to miss the point. I agree with you, that i liked it better when we had new cars each year, four chassis mfgrs and four engine mfgrs. MONEY is the reason we don;t have that now.

Take a look at the example I gave of how things were, and how they are now. I'd love it to go back to how it was....BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not a lame excuse, just reality. Now, abut last weeks race...rather fantastic, no?

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No ,you are missing the point. Indycar needs to open competition to some level therefore create environment for people in motor sport industry to bring money and want to be involved.I could see how one can get excited about little spec club race with so many yellows and buzzing ugly cars with pretty good conclusion ,but means nothing in comparison that some nascar driver test (that he took with ease) consuming all the media coverage for month of May instead. My point is that Indycar needs to bring status of Indy and Indycar series with a product and right now car is laser challenge than gp3 formula.

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

Who is forcing the series or teams to spend a dime

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No one is forcing them to do anything. They can choose race, or choose not to. The fact remains that it costs money to have engines/chassis/shop/crew/engineers/drivers/trucks/travel/entry fees/insurance. AND, they have less of it to spend, than they did back in the 90's.

Not only have many of you neve been part of a race team, it is obvious that many of you have never owned any busienss at all.

I'm glad you are gouiing to the races you mentioned, but yes, the check goes to the race promoters, not the teams. That comes from sponsors, or their own check books.

The issue is we have seen those with deep pockets is that they eventually leave (Patrick, McCaw, Kelley, Haas, etc.). If you have $20 million in the bank, that gets you two, maybe three years of racing, tops. If you do not have money coming in to replenish what you are spending, you no longer can afford to race. It is this new carzy thing called, math!

Do me a favor, and look at the Autosport Indycar review from 91/92/93/94 or 95. Count how many companies had their names on cars. Count how many engine mfgr's there were. Tire companies too. Now take a look today and you might start to see names you never heard of, or regional companies that pay a 10th of what the going rate was to get on a car.

We saw Newman Haas go away, becuase of lack of sponsorship. No one can deny that the family loved the sport, and the number of races with "Newman-Haas" on the side pods became to great. Money, and lack there of, is what is hurting the most. And, yes, this is tied directly into the TV ratings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

Not only have many of you neve been part of a race team, it is obvious that many of you have never owned any busienss at all.

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That is stupid statement, especially about people you don't know. Please don't tell me that racing teams do all of this for love of the .2, Really? Indycar doesn't charge fee for the event? Teams don't get money from the series? So let me get this, I'm spending money to see the race, Indycar is doing it for free, and teams don't get nothing? No wonder we are all on losing end of this deal. Those bad promoters,it's their fault. I think you have a problem selling that feel good bs, when deep down you know that product sucks and no one is watching.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

I'm glad you are gouiing to the races you mentioned, but yes, the check goes to the race promoters, not the teams. That comes from sponsors, or their own check books.

The issue is we have seen those with deep pockets is that they eventually leave (Patrick, McCaw, Kelley, Haas, etc.). If you have $20 million in the bank, that gets you two, maybe three years of racing, tops. If you do not have money coming in to replenish what you are spending, you no longer can afford to race. It is this new carzy thing called, math!

Do me a favor, and look at the Autosport Indycar review from 91/92/93/94 or 95. Count how many companies had their names on cars. Count how many engine mfgr's there were. Tire companies too. Now take a look today and you might start to see names you never heard of, or regional companies that pay a 10th of what the going rate was to get on a car.

We saw Newman Haas go away, becuase of lack of sponsorship. No one can deny that the family loved the sport, and the number of races with "Newman-Haas" on the side pods became to great. Money, and lack there of, is what is hurting the most. And, yes, this is tied directly into the TV ratings.

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Again,creating environment where companies in motorsports want to get involved and spend a money is the key, and as much you love spec and I don't doesn't matter , fact remains the same. Slow ugly spec is not a way to the future period. Don't preach to me as I will be idiot with many others on memorial day wasting my money and according to you not helping teams or Indycar.

Typical response from you

We have been thru this so many times yet you refuse to see the forest thru the trees

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

No one is forcing them to do anything. They can choose race, or choose not to. The fact remains that it costs money to have engines/chassis/shop/crew/engineers/drivers/trucks/travel/entry fees/insurance. AND, they have less of it to spend, than they did back in the 90's.

Not only have many of you neve been part of a race team, it is obvious that many of you have never owned any busienss at all.

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................

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starter

Again, when are you going to send your money to the series, since you want them to spend theirs?

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Again, if I was fortunate enough to be part of millionaire( Hulman-George) club that profits from the product, I would write even bigger check, but then again I wouldn't have to,as long as there is consumers like you who can settle for anything

There's nothing wrong with spec racing, every year a new car would be great but the DW12 produces some great racing, I don't understand why ex-CART/Champ Car fans keep crying about spec racing and a lot of other things about the IndyCar Series. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

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Originally Posted by heliocastroneves#3

If you don't like it, don't watch it.

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Things are looking up for you as more and more people don't give a ...... Congrats!

The 'where is the money' argument is a straw man argument. There is money out there. Apple alone could fund Indycar for the next 100 years. So why aren't Fortune 500 companies flocking to Indycar?

Because the real question that needs to be asked is, what is the return on investment? And right now more people watch the Daytona 500 than watch the Indy 500. Will spec cars and cost savings alone fix that? It hasn't so far.

We need imagination in this series. The bean counters ruin the car business every time they take control. The auto business is about emotion and Indycar lacks emotion at the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starter

Again, when are you going to send your money to the series, since you want them to spend theirs?

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How much money would it cost the series to 'open' the current rules to innovation? Does it really cost a lot of money to edit a rule book? Not having seen the rule book lately, are they still printed or are they downloaded on pdf now? Because that would be the extent of the cost to the series. Any committee to develop the rule changes would be volunteers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by heliocastroneves#3

There's nothing wrong with spec racing, every year a new car would be great but the DW12 produces some great racing, I don't understand why ex-CART/Champ Car fans keep crying about spec racing and a lot of other things about the IndyCar Series. If you don't like it, don't watch it.

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If there was nothing wrong with spec racing, then manufacturers would be flocking to the series, fans would be turned away at the gates and the TV ratings would be beating NASCAR every weekend.

If you want a spec series, fine. But open up the Indy 500 to single race entries by changing the spec rules. Turning the Indy 500 into a spec race was the single worst decision ever made in automotive history.

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Originally Posted by SarahFan

Typical response from you

We have been thru this so many times yet you refuse to see the forest thru the trees

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Typical response as I have been involved in Indycar racing for over 20 years. You? Zip.

I would love it if we could go back to what we had...we do not have the money! We can buy new cars/engines/electronics each year. We can barely pay for a crew for the entire year.....

You can cry, scream, complain, and continue to ignore the reality of the situation and you refuse to accept basic math.

I suggest you take one of the motorsport classes at Purdue or IUPUI. They have classes on Motorsport economics, and a little knowledge will help you out big time. For now, your ignorance is a big hinderance.

@EagleEye

How have you been ? I havent talked to you in awhile.

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Originally Posted by Rex Monaco

How much money would it cost the series to 'open' the current rules to innovation? Does it really cost a lot of money to edit a rule book? Not having seen the rule book lately, are they still printed or are they downloaded on pdf now? Because that would be the extent of the cost to the series. Any committee to develop the rule changes would be volunteers.

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Editing the rules may not cost much, but what happens after that? You still need to police them, and if you've opened things up, you're going to have many more variables to test. Safety would be an obvious concern. New parts or different ideas would have to be certified safe before being let loose on a track at 220mph, all of which would incur additional costs, especially if they were bespoke items. Maintaining a minimum standard in that situation would become ferociously expensive, as each newly developed part would require a new processes to be written more or less from scratch. As frustrating as the current situation may be, you have to cut your cloth accordingly. Things like breakeven analysis, working capital cycles and ROCE may not be exciting, but if you're running a business, you ignore them at your peril. Unless Indycar can find a rich benefactor to throw money down a hole, it has to be run on sound business principles. You can't pay supplier invoices with emotion.

Gentlemen,

A few of the comments in the past few postings have come very close to being personal attacks. I'm putting everyone on notice that you need to be sure the wording of your posts removes all possible interpretation of attacking another poster. You may attack an idea all you want, calling the idea stupid, asinine, ridiculous whatever. But you may NOT direct this at a person. Just watch the use of personal pronouns. OK? 'Nuff said.

Gary

Interesting, Nobody is listening. Nobody is watching. And other than the few hard-cores left, nobody seems to care and yet some still defend stupidity.

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

Interesting, Nobody is listening. Nobody is watching. And other than the few hard-cores left, nobody seems to care and yet some still defend stupidity.

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And yet some still stupidly defend ignorance....

I have been on record saying I would LOVE to have what we used to have. We do not have the money. Period, end of story. The engine manufactures contribute the lions share of promoting the series, save for Verizon, and Target. They are working hard to keep their costs, and the team costs low.

The Indy 500 will be one of the top five watched raced in the US, and possibly the world. The "nobody is watching" is false....yet very true on the versus/nbc/whatever it is called today. My bet is if we put 1994 CART races on some obscure cable network, with have the subscribers of ESPN, it also would lag in ratings......

Those who have ignored the economic climate are doing a great dis-service to those of us who do the best we can with what we have. Lola, gone. Swift, gone (they sold their wind tunnel, and are pretty much done with race cars once the 2013 Formula Nippon series ends). Cosworth for sale, including Coswworth Electronics (the old Pi Group). Newman-Haas, Kelley Racing, Team Menard, Forsythe/Players, Galles Racing, Cheever, Walker Racing, Patrick Racing, Della Penna Racing, and others, gone! DRR, gone after Indy....

Yet some will sit there and say it is not because of money....Really?

The racing has been fantastic! The cars are gorgeous (ok, not really) but they are great cars for racing. Thye have been fast at every track, save for the Super Speedways.

Like a broken record, we ALL would love to get new cars/engines/gearboxes/electronics each and every year. We would love to keep our employees on the books, for the entire year. We do not have the money....

We would love to have TV ratings for more than just one race.......as that would help solve a lot of issues. Bigger TV ratings=Bigger sponsoship deals=more $$=more technology.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

And yet some still stupidly defend ignorance....

I have been on record saying I would LOVE to have what we used to have. We do not have the money. Period, end of story. The engine manufactures contribute the lions share of promoting the series, save for Verizon, and Target. They are working hard to keep their costs, and the team costs low.

The Indy 500 will be one of the top five watched raced in the US, and possibly the world. The "nobody is watching" is false....yet very true on the versus/nbc/whatever it is called today. My bet is if we put 1994 CART races on some obscure cable network, with have the subscribers of ESPN, it also would lag in ratings......

Those who have ignored the economic climate are doing a great dis-service to those of us who do the best we can with what we have. Lola, gone. Swift, gone (they sold their wind tunnel, and are pretty much done with race cars once the 2013 Formula Nippon series ends). Cosworth for sale, including Coswworth Electronics (the old Pi Group). Newman-Haas, Kelley Racing, Team Menard, Forsythe/Players, Galles Racing, Cheever, Walker Racing, Patrick Racing, Della Penna Racing, and others, gone! DRR, gone after Indy....

Yet some will sit there and say it is not because of money....Really?

The racing has been fantastic! The cars are gorgeous (ok, not really) but they are great cars for racing. Thye have been fast at every track, save for the Super Speedways.

Like a broken record, we ALL would love to get new cars/engines/gearboxes/electronics each and every year. We would love to keep our employees on the books, for the entire year. We do not have the money....

We would love to have TV ratings for more than just one race.......as that would help solve a lot of issues. Bigger TV ratings=Bigger sponsoship deals=more $$=more technology.

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Names above you mentioned are out of buisness for two reasons, Owners are older fox and retired and companies who can't survive because they can't produce or sale nothing new because of spec freeze. How do you market ,sale and make more revenue with stupid product that motorsport industry don't care for?
Preaching same old tune to me is a waste of time as I'm stupid but proud member of .2 and big fan of open wheel formula racing therefore will watch and show up . You don't need new car or engine every year ,but to freeze everything is no good neither. Slow spec bumper cars don't sell and that's the fact. Installing no purpose bumpers and ugly side pods to cover wheels is to excite open wheel fans right? Please! Ski industry, phone industry ,gaming industry, car industry etc. is coming out with innovation all the time to serve their market and demand. Imagine if they stayed with your formula, we would still ski with 2x4s and still carry big bags with cell phones and sales would be a joke. There is no money ,but will develop and spend all that money for kits only for three races ,now who is ignorant? I think your time would be better invested by relating the message to your friends so they know what fans demand instead harping on some loyal fans here who only want Indycar to be what made them great in the first place. Good day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fiat1

interesting, nobody is listening. Nobody is watching. And other than the few hard-cores left, nobody seems to care and yet some still defend stupidity.

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yeeeep!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FIAT1

.... There is no money ,but will develop and spend all that money for kits only for three races ,now who is ignorant?

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I agree here 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I love you pashion, I love your ideas.

You are missing the point. You and I agree on how we want things to be, lock step and barrel. You keep arguing that I some how not in favor of having an open book on car desing, which is incorrect. 100% incorrect.

As an engineer, inovation and pushing technology is what feeds us. So to that point we are a bit (or a lot) stagnated.

The new aero kits are being underwritten cost wise by the engine manufacturers. And, running them at only three events is a horrible idea! That is a situtation based on GM having one design for all races, and Honda having one just for the superspeedways....a political mess that Mr. Walker will hopefully resolve.

NASCAR gets huge ratings for a variety of reasons...none being about cutting edge technology! So I have to disagree to some extent, that the fan base is tied soley on technology. CART, with new chassis/engines/etc, four engine Mfgrs, four chassis Mfgrs from 1996-2001ish could not attract big enough TV numbers to sustain a base. So while I wish we had that again, that alone does not result in an automatic fan base.

All I can say is...give it time. The good racing should lead to a better TV package, better TV ratings, more money, hopefully more technology that you and I can enjoy.

...................

Good read .


IndyCar - What Indy needs may be more speed - ESPN

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EagleEye

NASCAR gets huge ratings for a variety of reasons...none being about cutting edge technology! So I have to disagree to some extent, that the fan base is tied soley on technology. CART, with new chassis/engines/etc, four engine Mfgrs, four chassis Mfgrs from 1996-2001ish could not attract big enough TV numbers to sustain a base. So while I wish we had that again, that alone does not result in an automatic fan base.

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With respect to all who follow nascar , I certainly hope that's not you bar of measurement when it comes to standard and quality of open wheel formula that Indycar should be,F1 should be your target, and we all know what has happened since 1995 forward, that's why most of us left in the first place. We hope for the best! See you at a races!