So in 2013 we will hopefully have a Championship that could take the role IRC have had since 2007 as a tier 2 Championship that it means something to win!
Statement from Eurosport Events - News - IRC Intercontinental Rally Challenge - Eurosport
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So in 2013 we will hopefully have a Championship that could take the role IRC have had since 2007 as a tier 2 Championship that it means something to win!
Statement from Eurosport Events - News - IRC Intercontinental Rally Challenge - Eurosport
Should we expect a merged calendar with the best events of the two series?
Hopefully! :D
I also hope this means they at least start off with events in places that people would like to, amd can afford to go to, to get high numbers of teams !
Getting TV expo on Eurosport should make it easier to get sponsors for an ERC campaign !'
ERC done right could be a stepstone arena for up and coming people, and also for gentleman drivers and drivers over their WRC days to still be able to compete !
Some events could also be combined with the Historic series, for the even older cars and drivers !! :eek:
I am not sure if there will be the best events of the two series. I am afraid that more important will be the money...Quote:
Originally Posted by kober
A ten-year contract with Eurosport. That’s something.
World Motor Sport Council
“As part of the FIA’s commitment to strengthen the regional rally championships and implement a global strategy for the sport, the WMSC approved the principle of the appointment of Eurosport Events Limited as the Promoter of the FIA European Rally Championship from 2013 for a period of 10 years. Eurosport Events’ commitment will ensure the series is televised and promoted in all mediums.”
Good thing with 2 mediahouses promoting in WRC and ERC, so they can compete and learn from eachother !
Good. That gives some stability which is needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldF
Does anybody else think it is quite telling that the statement said the IRC "...will not run next year in its current format across Europe"? Maybe it's not as simple as no more IRC and better promoter for the ERC. Perhaps the IRC will still run in some form....Or maybe I'm looking into that choice of words too much.
maybe IRC will be kept as a trademark and the ERC name taken out of usage in that case?
Probably they'll only learn how to beat each other...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Each corporation (RedBull/Eurosport) will have a strong rally product to sell (WRC/IRC*) in a limited market (motorsport tv audience), so they'll end to make the series rivals.
I doubt it'll be good for the sport to have 2 international rally series disputing manufactureurs involvement and rally organizers commitment, especcialy in a economical recessive environment like the one we're living.
Maybe it would be wiser to have an undisputed manu oriented WRC and a complementary amateur friendly ERC.
*let's not be naive; to keep ERC brand it's only a political agreement between FIA and Europort. The goal of the series will remain IRC goal: a strong alternative to WRC.
Fully agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arganil
IMO if we could get rid of manufacturers in WRC as well, it would be good.
what good have they given the sport over the last decades, besides making the top cars too advanced and expensive for talent to have a chance to compete with Manu cars?
Last many years proved that European championship with just several gentleman amateur drivers didn't deserve it's name at all. It was just a joke. There was no interest among the drives even without any involvement of factories.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arganil
This could, and should be a good thing. And the whole of Rallying should benefit. Having 2 competing series has never worked - history has proved that; CART v IndyRacingLeague is one example.
The WRC is the Premier series, the new ERC (incorporating the IRC) is a level below, in the sports heartlands. What direction they go, is anybody's guess, but I hope for something like a 8-10 event Championship - with a good mix of Gravel, Tarmac and a Winter/ snow event.
So, I'd include; Ypres, Zlin, Sanremo, Corse, Valais, Scotland, Cyprus, Arctic, etc
The writing has been on the wall for the IRC this year, with too many 'non descript' events and less than stellar entries.
That's my point! If FIA manage to put RedBull and Eurosport working together it'll be a success, otherwise it'll end damaging the sport (don't forget WRC tv coverage decline in result of Eurosport/ISC confrontation).Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
There aren't so many potencial manufactureurs that can get involved at international rallying and tv audiences are always under great dispute by all kinds of sports, so if we create an opportunity to split vital resources we'll end to waste them without real compensation. In other words: it's better to have one great series than two or more medium series (F1 sucess recipe).
Don't get me wrong, back in 2006 IRC was an exciting bold move against FIA indolence over the sport. But IRC purpose was to "give new opportunites to young or amateur rally drivers competing in international rallies" and almost right away it has changed into a manufactureur mandatory registered 14 events series!
Agranil, don't twist facts, please. There was never any mandatory registration for any number of events. The only and understandable point was that manufacturers who wanted to take part had to pay a fee. That's totally normal because IRC has always been a commercial project and never any kind of charity. It still kept very privateer-friendly rules. Any privateer can do whatever number of events he wants and doesn't need neither any registration nor any payment. He only needs a car of registered manufacturer but the championship entry was payed by the manufacturer not by the privateer like in SWRC or PWRC.
Also since the very beginning it was made for S2000 cars and for manufacturers. Remember who won in the very first season all events where was entered? Yes, works team of Abarth. Since the next season Peugeot joined and since then the number of directly involved manufacturers raised year by year till the point when first Peugeot destroyed Abarth and later Škoda destroyed Peugeot and Proton. I remeber very well we had 9 Peugeots in top 10 of Barum rally 2008. Pity PSA is bad looser and they quit waiting for new rules rather than continue fight with the opponent who came to their territory and won. It's funny how it was all fine for PSA in 2008.
Little statistics of IRC to show that it has always been same with dominance of works or semi-works teams.
2006 - 4 events - 3 won by works crew, 1 by privateer (Abarth wasn't there)
2007 - 9 events - 6 won by works crews, 2 by semi-works crew (Peugeot Italia) and 1 by privateer (no manufacturer entered)
2008 - 10 events - 6 won by works crews (counting Hänninen here as he used Kronos car same as official drivers), 2 won by semi-works crew (Peugeot Italia), 1 by privateer (no manufacturer entered)
2009 - 11 events - 9 won by works crews (counting Peugeot UK here as they used same car as official drivers), 1 by semi-works crew (ŠKoda UK - that event without works car), 1 by privateer (no manufacturer entered)
2010 - 12 events - 9 won by works crews, 2 by semi-works crews (Peugeot Italia, Peugeot Portugal), 1 by privateer (no manufacturer entered)
2011 - 11 events - 11 won by works crews
2012 - so far 10 events, 7 won by works crews, 1 won by semi-works team (Ford Turkey), 2 by privateers (Basso, Sordo - but that's questionable)
I'm not twisting facts. IRC was early promoted as a competition for drivers, but after 2006 experimental season it was clear that it was meant to become a manufactureur WRC rival series.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
That's way they changed their name from international to intercontinental, they recruited unpleased wrc events organizers, they promoted a manufactureur title alongside existing driver title, and, above all, they ended WRC tv coverage on eurosport channels.
If in the rally reklless minds of FIA directors at the Mosley era IRC was presented as a manufactureur series, surely some signing bells should have ringed in order to restrain Eurosport intentions. That was not the case, and Europort wisely profit from the indolent ruler in order to expand this rally series, overwelmed received by all wrc disapointed rally fans.
Again, don't get me wrong: in those WRC troubled years IRC was a breath of fresh air and the sport hugely benefit from it, but now that seems that FIA is puting WRC all together it could be time to turn IRC into a private teams oriented series, not a manufactureur wrc refuge, as it seems it will again be the case with this new R5 cars.
Answer yourself. Was ERC worth following last ten years? It was what You want IRC to become - a championship of privateers. You can see only very few were interested despite they could win an official FIA championship title unlike in the IRC. Thanks god there has always been one really good driver to take the crown and we didn't have European champion like Tlusťák or Ruta. I have nothing personal against them but the sport should have a champion having skills.
ERC can be reinvented in many ways. It hasn’t to be a gentleman drivers parade or a manufacturers refuge.
FIA should encourage european top drivers to compete in a ‘grand slam’ from european rallies, alongside their national championships.
For instance, besides the anonymous and unchallenging FIA euro zones cups, there’s a vacant space to introduce an European Super Cup, formed by a limited number (3 or 4) of iconic rallies. With a decent media exposure it could be an affordable alternative to ERC/IRC for private teams.
How in reality You would like to select who is manufacturer entry and who is privateer? Was Kronos private team? I don't think so but how would You put it black on white paper to select which team is the true private one? What if I have a billion and rent a car from M-Sport with big testing and unlimited spares. Am I privateer if I'm entered on my license name?
I agree with the need to change or cancel the useless zone cups.
Autosport
Some quotes of Jean-Pierre Nicolas
- IRC to end, only ERC continues (as expected)
- calendar will be chosen of 25 candidate events
- R5 cars being prepared by Peugeot, Citroën, Ford, Subaru and Škoda (Subaru is a surprise news for me)
You can read the full interview after Rally Sliven here - Jean-Pierre Nicolas - Manager IRCQuote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
It seems that since FIA will have an input into the calendar, it won't be only about money. Hopefully Circuit of Ireland, Tour de Corse, Ypres, Barum, Poland, Sanremo will all make it :)
Rajd Polski wants WRC status again
Rajd Polski wants WRC status for many years. But now it is not only about money...
I will never understand why people need rallies like Cyprus! I totally agree with Solowow here. After competing in Cyprus Rally he said "I don't understand what sense it makes to buy a super-expensive rally cars and come here only to destroy them."Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Leave such rallies for off-road please!!!
I always respect your opinions, but this time I can't agree. What good did manufacturers give to the sport?! Wake up! It's only thanks to the manufacturers, that this sport still exists! When was the last time you saw a private driver competing in the whole WRC or ERC season? The sad truth is that only factory teams can afford a full season!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Jarek, there were some non-manufacturers drivers competing (almost whole) seasons in WRC and ERC - Solowow, Tlustak, Betti, Rossetti, Prokop, Araujo, Oliveira, Raikkonen, Novikov, Oleksowicz, Fontana, Isik...
There are too many rallies out there to trimm the championship to just ten events. I think that the current scheme for ERC calendar is not bad at all - twelve rounds, with a requirement to start in a minimum of four events in order to qualify for the final standings, including at least one event in either half of the season. Only the four best results from both half-seasons (4+4) count towards the final standings.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Sorry Petr, but this is not true. As far as I remember Rossetti, Betti, Oleksowicz, Fontana, Isik and other drivers from your list (I think even Solowow) have never driven all championship rounds, not in ERC and not in WRC. This is only wishful thinking, that a private driver can afford to drive the whole championship. It is sad, but true.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Cyprus has not been that rough in the IRC editions. It was different event to the old WRC one. Mixed surface, a lot of asphalt sections and even the gravel was much smoother than in the past. Sure it was not rougher than Acropolis. For me it was very nice event also mixing competition with MERC which was really refreshing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Thanks, and it is ok to disagree on topics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
I feel we need simpler cars ala R5 and also cheap, so that private teams can fight with worksteams.
as it is today the worksteams always are 1-2 development steps ahead of private cars. If one private car does well in a rally, he will be told to slow down if it suites the factory.
I want some sportsmanship and equal terms back into WRC.
Don't be naive, works teams will be always ahead. Even if they use all parts same as the privateer.
This is a bit OT here, but but anyway!
Yes Mirek, but that is mainly due to electronics and tweeking of that.
So in my naive world I see standard ECU and more mechanics in most parts of the rallycar, to level out as much as possible btw works and privateer.
i might be dreaming, but that is nice sometimes !
There is very little electronics in S2000 car. ECU is standard and must be homologated including software. Of course there are various maps. The rest of the car is completely mechanical. How exactly simpler You would like to make it? What is different is that works teams have virtually unlimited testing and sources (tyres, spare parts). The drivers can concentrate only on driving, feel maximum comfortable with the car thanks to the testing kilometers. It will be same if they drive a kart made of wood.
Wrong from me. It's not standard but it must be homologated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
All in all I'm not fan of "let's make all cars of same standard components" move. In my opinion it's killing the fundamental principles of motorsport.
In particular it is killing half of the sport - machine competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
As Mirek said last years Cyprus isn t different from Acropolis in terms of rough roads.Except that every rally has its character.You can t have Finland- Estonian smooth gravel all over the world.And thats only goodQuote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Different characters of rallies: Remember 10 years ++ ago in WRC. Nobody was able to win Safari AND Monte Carlo. Thats the real WRC. Today every WRC event looks like the same in my opinion. Thats maybe the reason why a driver like loeb can win all races over the world. I think they should go back, like Monte who is able to make his own character with night stages. Thats why I think Cyprus in WRC is OK.
But in ERC its a small difference, because there is no unlimited money. When Solowow says he dont like cyprus because he damage his car, so we should take his words and think about. Solowow is a very fast driver and I think nobody want to miss him. I am sure on Cyprus are much more road available which are not like hell. I remember the 90ies when Cyprus was in ERC, the roads were with average speed of 55 or 60. In that years also many ERC drivers missed, it was held mid of September. Main drivers come from middle east.
In general I hope that the calendar selection of coming new ERC is not depend on money. If some Organizer cannot give 200K +, they should agree and reduce TV Coverage. Otherwise I think regulation with 10-12 events, best 8 counting is also not perfect. See current IRC, if a driver has his big results, he can stay at home. Bad for Yalta and Sliven, maybe also for San Remo, dont know. Cyprus with 2x points is another story. Maybe, I dont know, 8-max 10 races in calendar should be enough. There exist also the WRC if somebody want to make more rallies.
But does it always have to be like that? Maybe only in WRC? I don't know if you remember ERC 2005, when Renato Travaglia, as a private driver, managed to beat factory drivers of Fiat (Giandomenico Basso) and Renault (Simon Jean-Joseph). How was it possible? Take a look:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
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