It's lasted too long and there is no end in sight..
It's surreal as a matter of fact.
The damage being caused as we speak is unlike any other and it's getting worse.
This is ****** up.
:( :mad:
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It's lasted too long and there is no end in sight..
It's surreal as a matter of fact.
The damage being caused as we speak is unlike any other and it's getting worse.
This is ****** up.
:( :mad:
Yes i agree..The destruction of the surrounding wildlife is amazingly sad. Us humans are very good at detroying things, yet very slow to repair.
Gee, they did not burn off the oil, because the environmental part of Obama's administration said that would pollute the atmosphere.
They did not let the the Governor of Louisiana build his berms because no one had done an environmental study.
Well the burning oil wells in Iraq caused no long term problems, but it seems that the Incompetent finger pointer and chief Obama thinks that the problems that oil will do to the shore and ocean life is less important than a little smoke in the air.
Actually, I got that wrong, Obama does not think, he merely reads tele-promters.
Even liberal taking heads are starting to say Obama has allowed this to become a cluster ****.
I blame the environmental movement.
Actually they could not burn it effectively. It is a matter of chemistry, not politics. Even if they did burn it, it would not be a little smoke in the air. When you burn 1.6 million gallons of crude oil (estimate 2nd may) it will do more than just make a little smoke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Quite frankly the blame game can wait until the leak (hardly seems to do the disaster justice calling it a "leak") has been plugged. Then the powers that be can point the finger of blame at whomever the hell they please, but right now all effort must go into fixing this mess.
Well you would wouldn't you.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I blame BP for not putting an emergency cut of valve. Or maybe an acustic switch which would have cost USD$500,000.00 would have worked, but was not put on to save money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rah
You don't know that. Nobody knows what actually happened. Any idea is just a theory.
I am just astounded oil companies have not developed some kind of vacuum/pump system that would pump this into a separator and reclaim the oil until the leak is repaired.
Does seem odd, doesn't it? The pipe's leaking and we can't stop the leak, so why not at least store the leaking oil somewhere in the meantime? But then what do I know?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamy
BP was given a waiver to not do this by the Obama administration just days before the accident.Quote:
Originally Posted by rah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
As our friend Valve would say:
Link please!!!!
:s mokin:
BP was lobbying to extend an exemption from doing an environmental impact study 11 days before the accident happened:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...050404118.html
No mention of a cutoff valve in the story.
The decision by the department’s Minerals Management Service (MMS) to give BP’s lease at Deepwater Horizon a “categorical exclusion” from the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) on April 6, 2009 — and BP’s lobbying efforts just 11 days before the explosion to expand those exemptions — show that neither federal regulators nor the company anticipated an accident of the scale of the one unfolding in the gulf. …Quote:
Originally Posted by race aficionado
The MMS mandates that companies drilling in some areas identify under NEPA what could reduce a project’s environmental impact. But Interior Department spokesman Matt Lee-Ashley said the service grants between 250 and 400 waivers a year for Gulf of Mexico projects. He added that Interior has now established the “first ever” board to examine safety procedures for offshore drilling. It will report back within 30 days on BP’s oil spill and will conduct “a broader review of safety issues,” Lee-Ashley said.
BP’s exploration plan for Lease 206, which calls the prospect of an oil spill “unlikely,” stated that “no mitigation measures other than those required by regulation and BP policy will be employed to avoid, diminish or eliminate potential impacts on environmental resources.”
While the plan included a 13-page environmental impact analysis, it minimized the prospect of any serious damage associated with a spill, saying there would be only “sub-lethal” effects on fish and marine mammals, and “birds could become oiled. However it is unlikely that an accidental oil spill would occur from the proposed activities.”
Kierán Suckling, executive director of the environmental group Center for Biological Diversity, said the federal waiver “put BP entirely in control” of the way it conducted its drilling.
Ok people let us not loose our grip with reality.
This is the first major blowout in US waters since the 1960's
This is the first major blowout at a well this deep.
The environment at 5000 feet is as harsh as it comes. What would work at 150 feet won't work at that depth. The pressure would crush almost anything that isn't specifically built to handle it. Even the guys at NASA haven't come up with any solution.
BP is doing everything it can to stop the leak. It is in their own best interest to do so. To imply anything else is illogical.
The fact a burn-off was not employed immediately, that would greatly have reduced the amount of oil in the water, makes any excuses given, either a damn lie or shows those involved are morons.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Within days after the leak, some "experts" interviewed on the air were wondering why a burn-off was not taking place.
Thanks Bob.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
So this says that BP was 'allowed" to be in control - not that it was being told by the government to not to do the correct thing.
. . . and like Dave says; "What do I know?"
and anthony's previous post does make the point clear that it's in everyones interest to stop the leak.
And yes, a serious investigation - criminal if needed so - should be taking place. This should never happen again.
You are right and you can say it is illogical they are doing everything THEY can or they KNOW how to do. All I know is a week after the accident, I was wondering where the chorus of media "experts" were not getting on Obama for this mess. He didn't create it, but Bush didn't create Katrina but he took a huge beating for "not caring enough". Personally, I think BP has all but blown their chance to save themselves. They don't have a clue and if they are actively not seeking the help and assistance of other experts from the rest of the oil producers, they should. When it comes to BP, you are quite right Tony to say it is illogical they are not doing everything they can, but I think they are actually doing everything they can as long as they are in control. I am shocked there isn't more being done by the US Army Corp of Engineers and US Navy's submersabiles.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I am also shocked at the amount of red tape and stupidity that has been employed to get in the way of putting up the berms or burning off the oil. On this score, I blame the administration, and I blame them for this stupidity of stopping all off shore oil drilling. This would be like saying you cant build a building out of wood because one burned down. The consequences are high, but as you say, after 50 years plus of drilling this is the first incident, and it is likely clear BP was not a good corporate citizen in how they operated their platforms.
Where is the freaking vacuum. This is such a simple and effective solution EKI could do it!! WOW this is water > this is oil > drain the filter in the oil tank> WHOALA send it to the refinery.
Bob,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
They did try to burn it off.....it didn't work. Afterward when they wanted to try again the Feds said no.
It is a tough deal to deal with something like this. The problem I have isn't that the problem isn't solved, but the casualness and just matter of fact way the US government has stood by for over a month while BP just keeps grasping at straws....
OkQuote:
Originally Posted by Roamy
And how do they "vacuum" it up?
Remember it is 5000 feet underwater and gushing at thousands of Gallons an minute.
And then how long do you think it would take to design and build what would be a huge, one of a kind piece of machinery?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
The fact is this isn't an easy situation for anyone. It is a worst case scenario and no one has had to deal in real terms with some like this. People have to separate what is being done from what CAN be done. My only complaint is, as I have stated is the casual nature the feds have dealt with this, and the free pass they are getting. If Giulani was President, I am sure BP was told either fix the problem, or get the hell out of the way, and Giulani would have thrown every bit of kit he had at the problem, because on something like this, solving the problem is priority one, and the hell with politics or the cost.
They did not try until WEEKS after the leak started when they had already started using chemical dispersants.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
An oil industry, not for British, said that the burn-should have started the minute the oil hit the surface, when it is most volatile, NOT after it started to thin out.
Now think about that,
The internet is a wonderful thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/28/lou...ire/index.htmlQuote:
By the CNN Wire Staff
April 28, 2010 11:13 p.m. EDT
"A controlled attempt to burn off part of the spill started Wednesday evening, the U.S. Coast Guard said."
So you see they did try burns shortly after the accident.
I stand corrected it was nine days, not weeks after the rig went to hell, of course it was not a let's get this sucker under control is was the ususal Obama response: "The Coast Guard began burning a portion of the spill Wednesday in an attempt to stop it from reaching sensitive environmental areas and the Louisiana shoreline. The slick was about 16 miles from Venice, La.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
The test burn began about 5 p.m. CDT and Landry said it was successful.
Nine days is not shortly, and they were still playing guessing games.
They appear not to have done much since. Jindal's gov't wanted permission to let the berms to be made to protect the barrier islands and shore and had to wait 3 weeks while the administration dinked around....meanwhile oil is coming ashore...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
(Tin Foil Hat Mode On)
It may be that Obama doesn't want this spill to be cleaned up too quickly. He may be wanting a few days or weeks to go by with oiled up birds, fish, and what-not on the evening news to get the public all riled up at BP in particular, and the oil industry in general. That way he can halt any new well projects and exploration. This way the price of energy "necessarily goes up" just like he said he wanted during the campaign.
(Tin Foil Hat Mode Off)
Now I'm not saying that is what's happening, but "never waste a good crisis" comes to mind.
:p :Quote:
Originally Posted by VOP
[youtube]VptOUWC-Itc[/youtube]
well its certainly time we wake up from our oil induced sleep and get away from fossil fuels , or we can just keep sending supertanker sized piles of cash to the middle east. i have no ideas on what hey should do to fix this mess one thing for sure this mess will absolutely be cleaned up by this wonderful planet she will fix any mess we make of it then sweep us off and on to the next life form like we were never here
Quote:
Originally Posted by racefanfromnj
Ahhhh..Jeez...Would you people give it a rest!!!
Right now there is no form of energy as cheap, plentiful, efficient and CLEAN as oil.
Wait a second, I'm confused. Buying oil from BRITISH Petrolium is sending money to the Middle East? Pumping oil out of the Gulf of MEXICO is sending money to the Middle East? We need to get away from fossile fuels (I assume you mean because of all the pollution), but the Earth will find a way to clean itself up, as it always does?Quote:
Originally Posted by racefanfromnj
Man you need to stick to one line of thinking, you're all over the map on that one
it would be incredibly easy. Oil floats and you can just pick it up off the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
It is actually frightful we can't implement such a simple solution in short order.
also VOP while I am thinking of it. They have large centrafuge pumps whereby the oil and water would separate quite easily. used quite a bit for gold mining.
Guess you better stop being a race fan. Racing is bad for the enviroment if you havent noticed. What is more, you should take up a writing course, and learn a little grammar and punctuation in the process. I had to read your screed about 3 times to figure out what you were after.Quote:
Originally Posted by racefanfromnj
It would also do you some good to read where your oil in America comes from. News flash, it isn't the Middle East. I know this is tough for you to handle, and I hate to break it to you this way, but Europe and Asia get most of their oil from the Middle East. American oil partners make money on selling that oil after extraction and the money actually flows INTO the US from the Middle East. Bigger news flash, most of your imported oil comes from Canada. I know you cant begin to understand all that, but before you go off on some sort of anti-big oil rant, understand that the politics of oil is not the easy talking points some blow hard poltician has lead you to believe.
The fact is, cleaning this mess up is going to take BP AND the Gov't agencies working together, and lot of untried technology (untried on a disaster of this scale). It is the first disaster of this type in US offshore drilling history. To stop offshore drilling now would be like banning building houses from wood after the first one caught fire.
The fact is oil is still the most efficient way to meet most transportation needs, and will be for the forseeable future. If there was a better way, you can bet one of the automakers would have it on the market.....because the demand is THERE...
Have you any grasp of the size and scope of the spill. It is coming out under incredible pressure from over 5000 feet below the surface.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamy
We aren't talking about a drop of olive oil in a glass of water. Just the varying currents below the surface is moving it all over. It is appearing on the surface at various locations in long strings.
Not to mention surface tension would preclude it being sucked up by one single vacuum. It would literally take 100's and even that probably wouldn't do much.
The way to combat it is 3 pronged.
A. Stop the leak. That is the most important.
B. Protect the shorelines with booms, berms and absorbents.
C. Use Chemical and biological dispersant and allow the the oil to be consumed by microbes and evaporate
well I would agree however there are some pretty big and powerful pumps I mean to tell you. But they do need to get the lid on
A burn-off is impractical because:
A) The vast area of the slick makes it difficult to control,
B) It would continue to burn until the leak at the sea-bottom is contained.
C) The unpredictable direction of the spread would make it a hazard to both marine life and shipping.
A similar spill occured back in the late nineties(?) off the gulf of Arabia. The solution then was to send in a couple of emptied crude oil tankers to vacuum up the spill. This isn't being done now because of the lost revenues that would be incurred for the tanker-owners :mark:
This process works fine for separating solid particulates from water, but it's not as easy for emulsions. It’s a very energy-intensive process and would have to take place off shore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roamy
Nuclear, but its cleanliness is debatable.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Fact is that fossil fuels supply ~95% of today's world energy needs.