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http://www.indystar.com/article/2010...ed-from-series
and during the month of may no less....
a couple highlights
"We need to blow up IRL," Bernard said. "It needs to be (known as) IndyCar.
"To the purist, (IRL) is a negative acronym. We need to get away from using it."
He's absolutely right.
Another idea he believes will be in place by next year's 500: an earlier starting time. He's thinking 11 a.m., which not only would give NASCAR drivers a chance to do the big Sunday double, but would allow fans from out of town more daylight hours to return to Chicago or Cincinnati.
"The Indy 500 always stood for the best drivers in the world, but without (Sam) Hornish, (Juan Pablo) Montoya and (Tony) Stewart here, it's hard to argue we have 100 percent of the top drivers," Bernard said. "How many more fans would follow them and follow the race if they were in it? Moving the time (to 1 p.m.) didn't help the ratings a bit."
He has grassroots ideas. He has ideas about trying to bring back the innovative technology that used to make every spring so interesting. He has ideas about reaching out to the karting community. He is learning, listening. He comes in with fresh eyes, unsullied by the destructive politics of the past.
The insiders nearly killed the sport. Now it's time to see what an outsider can do.
^todays nuggett....
Only partially right. The IRL name has to go but so does IndyCar along with anything related to "Indy" when describing the entire series.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
They don't call it the "Daytona" stock car series or Formula Monaco.
Definitely an acronym then, is it? So we should have been pronouncing it "Earl" all along, and not IRL?Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
A minor point, Mr Randy Gentleman, but otherwise some fine points.
Oh don't go there. We settled this debate once & for all on this thread: http://www.motorsportforums.com/foru...072#post777072Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
IndyCars are what they are.
And they are growing by leaps and bounds?Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
The buying public settled it awhile back. Drop the "Indy" moniker.Quote:
Originally Posted by e2mtt
You are right, NO ONE goes to Indy anymore, all those other races are bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Just call the series CART and be done with it.
A freakin' name change ain't gonna put another ass in the seat at a real race track or put another one in front of a TV either. If he thinks a few letters mean jack squat for why people don't care anymore, he truly is clueless.
This is what you get when you bring a guy in who knows nothing about the sport and nothing about its history (which goes back a hell of a lot farther then 1996). Probably another idea he got from Miller and Cotman.
Dropping "IRL" and just calling it Indycar is a no-brainer. I'm impressed if he's come out and said it and I hope he executes on it immediately. They even talked of this 20 years ago when it was called CART. The casual fan has always called it Indycar in my lifetime.
Scotty - I don't often agree with you but I have marked the calendar on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty G.
Thanks Wilf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilf
We don't always have to agree on things. Life and racing would be boring if everybody thought exactly the same.
I don't think this whole thing is that big a deal. Just semantics.
But it was the tone that Bernard set with his remarks, that will be offensive to some. This guy has been here for a few months, and now he is talking like he's some expert on this.
He needs to realize that the term "IRL" is not met with the same derision that the CART/Champ Car set (which now dominate this sport and obviously dominate his ear) see it as. He needs to realize that there are many, many folks (although fewer by the year) that were truly behind the original IRL and what its ideals stood for. He needs to realize that speaking badly about the term "IRL", only further divides and alienates many in the sport (since the divide is obviously still there and very alive if you read message boards) in a time when he and HIS sport cannot afford to alienate ANYONE.
I think Bernard opened up a can of worms he didn't need to. Very few people even refer to it as the IRL anymore. Its the Indy Car series. Sanctioned by the Indy Racing League. Just like its Indy Lights, sanctioned by the Indy Racing League.
The Indy 500 for years was sanctioned by USAC.
Bernard should just worry about why so few Americans are in cars and watching the races and make that his #1 priority. Leave the semantics to the folks like Robin Miller and his minions.
Who is saying anything about changing the name of the Indy 500?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilf
It is the series that needs a new name.
What kind of cars do they drive?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
To be more technical, IndyCars used to be referred to as American Championship Cars. But if Randy has considered at all renaming the IndyCar Series as the American Championship Car Series, that would conjure up a recollection of the Champ Car World Series, which I think he would want to avoid for obvious reasons.
Personally, using the IndyCar name for professional single-seater open-wheel cars based in the U.S. is still the way to go. It is just a more recognizable name for these kind of cars. I would like for the series to be bring back the IndyCar World Series name by just by itself (No IRL IndyCar World Series, USAC IndyCar World Series or CART IndyCar World Series; just IndyCar World Series). That name implies that this is a racing series that recognizes the Indianapolis 500 as its jewel and center piece (which it still is and will continue to be), but the series also competes elsewhere around the world (including the U.S.).
Also, something else I would like to see happen, if Randy hasn't considered this yet, is to revive the Vanderbilt Cup to be the series' overall championship trophy.
Here we go again..... <sigh> .... WHY WHY WHY do you HATE HATE HATE Indy so much ???Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Open wheel racing in North America would NOT NOT NOT exist without Indianapolis and no matter how much YOU deny it Indianapolis IS and will always be part of North American open wheel racing.
CART died because it did not have Indianapolis. You want IndyCar to die also, so I guess I can see your motivation. You frustrate me to no end. Congrats LOL
Why do you hate Indianapolis ?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
So we get rid of the "IRL" moniker for a series that has cars, tracks, rules, and people that essentially make up the IRL.
You have yet to make a convincing argument that changing the name will bring in anyone. If they drop the "Indy" name will that really magically bring in hundreds of thousands of new fans?Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
You are the FIRST and ONLY person I have ever run into that HATES the name "Indy" ... and you seem to be watching the series. So tell me how will dropping the name build the fan base?
Thats total *****. But It's damn good to hear bernard say that,and I agree it should be indycar.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagocrewIRL
How about this:
Change the name of the sanctioning body to "Indycar"
Change the name of the top level series to "IZOD Cup"
Change the name of the development series to "(insert sponsor's name series"
Then add a new series using open wheel trucks and call them " ????? Truck series"
Just having a little fun.
FACT: CART teams returned to Indy to do one-offs because their sponsors wanted them to do so. See Phillip Morris, see Target... etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by peasant
FACT: Honda and Toyota switched over to the IRL why ? Because of Indianapolis.
FACT: When these teams and engine manufacturers switched over, CART was basically emasculated.
Please go on and tell me that these are not facts. Yeah that's right . UH huh .
Awesome!Quote:
Originally Posted by dataman1
http://img132.imagevenue.com/loc232/..._122_232lo.jpg
DallarasQuote:
Originally Posted by Wilf
The City or the Indy 500?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagocrewIRL
I don't hate the Indy 500. Never said I hated it.
I don't have a fixation that it is the greatest event in the world and the only thing that matters.
I view it for what it is.
The Indy 500 use to be the biggest race in the world but has dropped significantly in popularity and significance to the point that it isn't even the most important race that day.
I realize that there are many here who have an emotional attachment to the Indy 500 but they need to realize that the vast majority of people don't. Times change. Tastes change.
Why drive non-Indy 500 fans away? Dropping the "Indy" name from the series will not hurt the Indy 500 one bit. It didn't hurt it when the series was called USAC and it didn't hurt it when it was called CART before the split. In fact it prospered during those times.
You're such a hater and I don't know why. You have yet to offer ANY evidence that "INDY" keeps people away or is detrimental to the series. To the contrary, the term "INDY" is synonymous with speed, competition, and spectacle. The term is an asset not a liability.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
SEEE -->>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP4PyTV4iaY
But I know I will never convince you because your opinions are so clouded by hatred that they will never even consider anything otherwise. So I wish you the best in your deluded world. Must be very lonely where you are.
You just don't know what Indy means. And you never will. I feel sorry for you.
And what did the "man on the street" call the series during both of those terms. They only called it USAC or CART when they were talking to another USAC or CART person, when they were talking to someone outside that small circle they called it "Indycars".Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
I too am still waiting to hear your justification on how the term Indy is driving folks away. I eagerly await an answer to that question asked of you MONTHS ago and still unanswered.
Gary
I am not going to knock you for loving the 500, I for I do too, but I think OW racing in some form would have existed if there was no 500. That said, there is, and it is the most important race.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagocrewIRL
THAT Said, CART may have died because it didn't have Indy, but I would hardly say Tony George's IRL worked to any great extent. There needs to be a series, in which the signature event is the Indy 500. What we didn't need was 2 of them, and THAT was where things went wrong. What is more, is Tony couldn't see that it would destroy the legitmacy of the sport and in the end, the IRL. How much money did he spend before he was given the boot? Lets face the reality, if his "vision" worked, he would still be there, and he isn't because he burned a lot of the family fortune proving he didn't know squat. So when Randy Bernard wants to maybe change the name of the sport, I think there is some merit to. The IRL was the creation of Tony George, and I would love to erase my link to anything he personally created....
Still doesn't change the 500 or the cars are Indycars though. I always called CART cars really Indy cars for a long time...because the reality is, they were the same DNA as the cars that last raced from CART in the Indy 500. Just they were told not to show up unless you played by an arbitrary set of rules....
Who is being driven away by the name "Indy"? Again, YOU seem to be the only one who give a d@mn about the name, AND YOU ARE WATCHING THE SERIES! So who exactly is being driven away? This form of racing has been called IndyCar since before any of us here were born, and probably before our parents too. Why would you go changing that and cause confusion in the marketplace? That is the LAST thing we need right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
And the series was NEVER refered to as USAC or CART by the general public. Most called it IndyCar. So much so that (as I pointed out to you in the other thread) the promoters of the Toronto and Austrailia races decided to keep the name "Indy" even when technically they were not IndyCars racing there.
Your personal hatred for the name "Indy" is not a reason to drop it. You have presented absolutely no evidence that it will help anything. How about until you can come up with a convincing, or at least logical, argument you let this drop, ok?
Technically the cars in Toronto after 95 were not "Indy"cars? Spritiually and their technical DNA would say they were tho....Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Really, they call the series what they like, but for anyone to hide the fact they are Indycars is a braindead idea, and I don't think that is what Bernard wants. I just think he wants to dump the IRL name and give the series a new look. No one will stop calling them Indycars though.
You have to understand though Chuck, some people are just haters of the whole series....disguising themselves as concerned fans...
Ouch!!! :D Btw, Lousada, you picked the perfect open-wheel truck!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by dataman1
Seriously, how about "Indy Racing Group" (IRG) or "IndyCar Racing Group" (ICRG)? Anyway, it's not deal breaker, it's just the sanctioning body's name.
The argument could be made that in '96 they were the same. But from '97 on the cars racing at the Molson INDY Toronto were not the same cars that ran in the Indianapolis 500. So, no they were not IndyCars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
I do get your point though.
IN 97, and 98 even, Lolas and Reynards DID run at Indy, and they ran in Toronto. Not just the exact cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Lets face it though Chuck, no one would look even at a Lola in 2002 and NOT call it an Indycar. It was called Champ Car eventually, but the reality is DNA, size and style of car paid homage to the Indy 500 in the layout, size and appearence. The lay person wouldn't know the difference and that was why the two series model as was laid out by the wizard at 16th and Georgetown confused the marketplace and eventually diluted it....
No, this is not correct. In '97 the rules changed and you had to run a Dallara, G-Force, or Riley&Scott. No Lolas nor Reynards were allowed after '96.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
I agree with that totally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Sure TG could have done things differently. However, the CART boys could have as well. They could have shown up at Indy in '96, qualified with the X number of fastest times, and blown up the whole dumb 25-8 rule thing. That would have forced TG into a position where he probably would have had to face the music, allow the fastest 33 no matter where they were from, and the IRL probably collapses right there. There are almost always two sides to every decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
But I REALLY don't want to get into a whole IRL vs CART deal here, there's PLENTY of other topics that have devolved into that.
The new formula with Dallara, G-Froce and R and S came along for the 97 Indy 500. So the first 2 years the cars were the same in theory, ok...correct. A minor point.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
The CART guys probably figured The family wouldn't let Tony spent all that money propping up the IRL. They were only 15 years too late...Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
I think if they showed up in 96 and blew up the 25-8 in thing in theory, the reality is they couldn't have reached Tony. He would have allowed the 8 fastest CART guys and the other 17 could go pound sand. The harsh reality is anyone dopey enough to create another series in the manner Tony did to "protect" the 500 wasn't a reasonable man to start with...
Folks it is over. King George has been dethroned.
Most of us realize the current state of affairs is not really working and we all have been calling for change; well pretty well all.
So Randy comes in and is at least looking at changes but realizes because of the economy things have to be done rather slowly.
So let us give the guy a chance instead of complaining because he is trying to do something instead of the status quo which is not and has not been working.
Sure he may make mistakes but so does everyone. We just better hope he does not make many.
But please stop navel gazing and rehashing for the umpteenth time the same old arguements.
He is dethroned...but to see people advocating what he did worked or was right is very maddening....it is proof positive that those who don't learn from an experience are doomed to repeat it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Drifter
Somehow Randy has instinctively understood this, and he is looking to change the "channel"...or at least dump the IRL moniker....
I am not sure if it is a big deal...but perceptions are how you sell the sport, and the perception of the IRL isn't a good one among race fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dataman1
Yes, we need to make it even more confusing for people.
"Honey, lets go watch the Izod Cup Race". Huh???
I think he was poking fun at something Scott...Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty G.
No matter...I am with you in that they are Indycars and we shouldn't ever change that name, but changing the IRL to ....something may not be THAT bad.....as long as the name makes sense and is natural..