The Rise of Felipe Massa

In a quiet moment the other day I got to thinking about the sudden turn around in young Massa's career. He's gone from that Brazillian guy who wrecks Saubers to Ferrari's potential next world champion in the space of 12 months.

Just about everybody, both on this forum and in the press, is including Massa in the fight with Alonso and Raikkonen for the WDC. Now I know Massa won his first races last year and had some very good drives where he beat Schumi but so did Barrichello and nobody ever talked about Barrichello as a contender for the WDC.

I mean, 12 months ago everybody, and that includes myself, were questioning Ferrari's decision to give the guy a drive and were saying things like 'he's only a one year stop-gap' etc. The consensus was basically that Jean Todt was insane and was only giving Massa the drive because he wanted to do his son a favour.

At the end of last season there was talk of Massa having the edge over Raikkonen in the early stages of the season but the Finn would destroy the Brazilian once he got to grips with the team and car. Now, Kimi's going to have to beat Alonso and Massa to win the title.

I don't get it. Massa had a good season in a car that was as fast, if not faster, than any on the grid. He won his maiden race but he also made plenty of mistakes. Remember Bahrain and Monaco?

So tell me. What makes people think that Massa has what it takes to beat a defending double world champion and arguably the fastest guy on the grid?

Felipe Massa really matured and became a much better and reliable driver in the 2nd half of last season. I don't think h'll become world champion next season as I think he still has a lot to learn, but in 2008 if he's still with Ferrari then I think he will become WDC no problem.

The thing that is nagging me is that how often has a driver gone from being a crash-aholic to a potential world champion in a single season? Some drivers enter F1 and are marked from day one as champion material. Schumacher, Alonso, Raikkonen, Senna and even Jean Alesi. Some get there, some don't. Massa has never really shown anything that makes you think of him in those terms.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see him win it as I don't care which Ferrari driver wins the title as long as one of them does. I think you might be right about 2008 but I just can't see it for this year. It's too soon and we have no idea how he will handle the pressure of a title fight as he's never been there. Alonso and Raikkonen have. Advantage them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

In a quiet moment the other day I got to thinking about the sudden turn around in young Massa's career. He's gone from that Brazillian guy who wrecks Saubers to Ferrari's potential next world champion in the space of 12 months.

---

Hmmmm, And during my quiet moments, I ussually try not to think about Massa. :p :

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

Just about everybody, both on this forum and in the press, is including Massa in the fight with Alonso and Raikkonen for the WDC. Now I know Massa won his first races last year and had some very good drives where he beat Schumi but so did Barrichello and nobody ever talked about Barrichello as a contender for the WDC.

---

Barrichello was never considered a WDC contender because when he was in a fast car, He had Schumcher as a team mate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

I mean, 12 months ago everybody, and that includes myself, were questioning Ferrari's decision to give the guy a drive and were saying things like 'he's only a one year stop-gap' etc. The consensus was basically that Jean Todt was insane and was only giving Massa the drive because he wanted to do his son a favour.

---

Everybody? Massa has pretty much always had a Ferrari behind him, being choosen to replace Rubens was no suprise to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

At the end of last season there was talk of Massa having the edge over Raikkonen in the early stages of the season but the Finn would destroy the Brazilian once he got to grips with the team and car. Now, Kimi's going to have to beat Alonso and Massa to win the title.

---

More and more people are suggesting that Kimi's reliability issues at McLeran where of his own making. You also have people like JV questioning his work ethics, So as long as Ferrari can develop a title contender that Massa wouldn't be fighting for the championship. Even more likely if he can get the upper hand on Kimi early in the season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

I don't get it. Massa had a good season in a car that was as fast, if not faster, than any on the grid. He won his maiden race but he also made plenty of mistakes. Remember Bahrain and Monaco?

---

Schumacher proved last year that even a 7 time champion is capable of making mistakes in a race.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

So tell me. What makes people think that Massa has what it takes to beat a defending double world champion and arguably the fastest guy on the grid?

---

Simply put, this is F1 and if Massa wins the championship over Alonso, it will probably be because A) Ferrari had a supirior car over McLeran, and Kimi didn't perform up to expectations. and B) Even with Alonso the McLeran cars are to unreliable to challenge for championships.

But I would also like to add, You could have thrown almost anyone into that second Ferrari, and they would likely be considered a potential champion for 07 for the basic that they will not by racing against MIchael.

the problem now is that drivers are brought in too quick thats why now they need to really have a team behind them to allow them to make many mistakes while they learn.

ferrari invested in massa 2002 2003 2004 and 2005 until he came good in 2006.

how old is massa

i would LOVE (LLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVEEEEEE) to see Massa outshine Kimi "Stripper Jerk" Raikonnen

i told my friend, Massa has better gesture than Michael on an advertisement of Bridgestone and i like it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fousto

how old is massa

---

He was born on 25/04/1981 so he is almost 26. He's actually 18 months younger than Raikkonen who was born in October 1979.

Thats what I thought - He is just coming into prime time so we will see how he does.. There is a lot more to winning a championship than just raw speed.
Alonso was a exception to the rule I think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fousto

Thats what I thought - He is just coming into prime time so we will see how he does.. There is a lot more to winning a championship than just raw speed.
Alonso was a exception to the rule I think.

---

He is still young. 2007 will be his sixth year in F1, though only his fifth in a racing capacity.

What surprises me is the surge in support for him since the end of the season. I wonder if his win in Brazil is still fresh in people's minds and is colouring some perceptions of him?

I don't actually think he can beat Raikkonen consistently enough over the course of an entire season. I think he will beat him on occasion, just as he did Schumcaher but in equal machinery I think the Finn will prove to be too quick.

well I was thinking that too until JV said otherwise. So respecting Jv I will hold judgement for a few races.

i never doubted he had talent, and we was at least fun to watch.
i think he was heavily criticised early in his career by members of the forum who are somewhat adverse to excitement, for some reason he upset their delicate armchair-expert sensibilities.(F1 is all about strategy dont you know)
dunno if he`s got what it takes to go all the way though.

I won't say anithing till the season starts, I think he is shown he is a very good second driver, but we don't how he will cope with the pressure of having to deliver consistently.

Massa is a good example of a driver, who is underrated in a mediocre team and suddenly people think someone has become a better driver after getting a better car! Well yes, he has learned a lot at Ferrari, but his raw speed has always been good, I suspect that he lacked of physical strength and endurance in his early years in F1 that prevented him to shine even more. But... when in 2002 Peter Sauber said that Massa is as talented as Räikkönen, then he was laughed at. And still in 2005 no-one was talking about him. I remember that I made a thread about Felipe in the summer of 2005 in one forum and asked for people's thoughts about him and the answers were mainly, that
- oh he is nothing special;
- just a usual mid-packed driver for the whole career;
- he'll be lucky to get a seat in a top team one day;
- maybe he even won't have a drive next year in F1 (because Heidfeld was about to take his Sauber-BMW seat);
- etc, etc.

Therefore - do not tend to underrate drivers just because they don't have a top car! As many consider Massa's performance in 2006 as a positive surprise, then every season there are so-called surprises, which usually happen due to the fact that some guy at last gets a competitive car and then many react so that "Oh I even couldn't imagine that he can be that good!" Less than a month to go - we just have to wait and see, who is gonna be a 'surprise' this season. Even Felipe might be among "surprises" if he can at least match Kimi, which would be unexpected to many.

But all in all, I haven't recently put much emphasis on Kimi vs Felipe possible duel. Maybe I don't care that much and think that will the better one win! :)

After driving the first quarter last year i oftently saw him alternately right before or after Michael (unless wet races), we can make a prognosis if you think Kimi is equal to Michael, Massa could be a danger team mate for Kimi.

This two guys have similar agresiveness on the track, or Massa could be smoother a bit? He takes adventage from this being his second year driving for Ferrari, while Kimi has a huge experience driving another good car despite some people said it has poor reliability.

Can't wait until the real race commenced and we'll see which Ferrari boy will compete for the title, if anything goes naturally i bet Alonso and Massa the first group, and Buton/Kimi behind them.

He joined Formula 1 too early. JV knows this and no praises him and has quite some respect for him. Massa is my current favourite Formula 1 driver, will be very interesting to see him agains Kimi.
Brazil 2007 was quite something!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jens

Massa is a good example of a driver, who is underrated in a mediocre team and suddenly people think someone has become a better driver after getting a better car! Well yes, he has learned a lot at Ferrari, but his raw speed has always been good, I suspect that he lacked of physical strength and endurance in his early years in F1 that prevented him to shine even more. But... when in 2002 Peter Sauber said that Massa is as talented as Räikkönen, then he was laughed at. And still in 2005 no-one was talking about him. I remember that I made a thread about Felipe in the summer of 2005 in one forum and asked for people's thoughts about him and the answers were mainly, that
- oh he is nothing special;
- just a usual mid-packed driver for the whole career;
- he'll be lucky to get a seat in a top team one day - maybe he even won't have a drive next year in F1 (because Heidfeld was about to take his Sauber-BMW seat);
- etc, etc.

---

I wouldn't say he was under-rated but rather a very immature driver.

No doubt the raw speed was there but the amount of time he succumbed to 'red-mist' and trashing the Sauber has been countless. Also the amount of times that I laughed whenever I saw Massa waving his fists in the air when the car infront was a few hundreds metres away looked almost pathetic.

The other surprising thing is that it has taken a good few years for Massa to mature. For sure, if Massa had a different management team, Massa would be in A1GP by now.

At first I was happy with Massa signing for Ferrari. I said to myself: "good...! a ferrari driven by a moron is always a good news for me" I have to say that in the meantime I have changed my mind. I saw him handling Schu pretty well when he was allowed...

ferrari spend so much money to get raikkonen...they will never let massa beat kimi , and if massa is faster they will use their usual tricks..ferrari rolls

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DimitraF1

ferrari spend so much money to get raikkonen...they will never let massa beat kimi , and if massa is faster they will use their usual tricks..ferrari rolls

---

If Massa truly becomes more consistent in winning than Raikkonen, I don't think Ferrari will be stupid enough to trash Massa just because they paid more for Raikkonen. In MS era, although Barichello/Irvine can be faster sometimes, but they can't match MS in terms of winning consistently. The #1/#2 status is based on probabilities of winning, not the cost. Bottom line, money spent is for the goal of winning.

Although...it's only slim probability that Massa can be consistently winning over Raikkonen, except if Raikkonen is really a "car-breaker". With a Ferrari he can no longer find excuse in the reliability department.

This will be Massa's year to shine. In his career he has not been slow and has raced with the best and held his own.

Alonso or Button and maybe Kimi are the greatest drivers of F1 currently, but i'd rather stand for step son like Massa to chalange the title

Massa is not WDC material. He got badly trashed by MS this year. He is really bad in the rain. I like him as a person, but I dont see him being a WDC this year. Testing times is no indication about him being WDC. Kimi will beat him easily....

I admit it but he is not bad either, i talked about support and expectation, usually there is reason why should expect something and support someone, and i see it is possible, he is a hard-worker that sometime more important than skill itself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by f1rocks

Massa is not WDC material. He got badly trashed by MS this year. He is really bad in the rain. I like him as a person, but I dont see him being a WDC this year. Testing times is no indication about him being WDC. Kimi will beat him easily....

---

Not yet proven. All efforts at Ferrari were for MS. This year Massa will have the car and attention he deserves. If Kimi kicks his butt then I will agree. However on this one I am going to reserve judgement until a few races.

Actually I recall a race at hockenhiem where if memory serves correctly he was brilliant in the wet and drying conditions. maybe you could be more specific in a history of wet races for massa.

gracias

I think he was referring the wet race of Monza, the extremely worse i could remember, the rest wet races weren't worst than it.

The more he tries wet races i think he will improve how to get better with it, obviously a matter of time.

What concerns wet, then in 2006 Shanghai qualifying Massa was running well and during the first two sessions was making faster times than Schumi, but at the end of the second session in drying conditions Ferrari let Schumi to make his last attempt to get into Top10 and Felipe had to stay in the pits not to take that "vacant Top10 position" away...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jens

What concerns wet, then in 2006 Shanghai qualifying Massa was running well and during the first two sessions was making faster times than Schumi, but at the end of the second session in drying conditions Ferrari let Schumi to make his last attempt to get into Top10 and Felipe had to stay in the pits not to take that "vacant Top10 position" away...

---

Because there was no more place for Massa on the track or what?
Why would Ferrari not want both drivers in the top 10?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ioan

Because there was no more place for Massa on the track or what?
Why would Ferrari not want both drivers in the top 10?

---

Remember, Michael on his last attempt managed 9th fastest time, so he was really close to falling out. Before this attempt Felipe and Michael were somewhere 12th-14th, if I remember correctly. If Felipe had also driven in the last minute and he and also someone else had made a faster time, then it would have been over for MS.

It was a risky situation and before the last minute in those conditions it was clear that at best one Ferrari can manage into Top10 and even that seemed unlikely. So better give the opportunity to get into Top10 to the driver, who was fighting for the WDC title. I remember Felipe watching Michael's last attempt in the garage.

Funny how times change and predictions can be so wrong! I was at the USGP in 2004 when, at a charity auction, two autographed driving suits were auctioned for charity. One was Button's and one was Massa's. Matt Bishop referred to Button's as belonging to the next WDC and Massa's as belonging to someone who would be driving a cab next year (2005)...

...Right on again, Bish!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jens

Remember, Michael on his last attempt managed 9th fastest time, so he was really close to falling out. Before this attempt Felipe and Michael were somewhere 12th-14th, if I remember correctly. If Felipe had also driven in the last minute and he and also someone else had made a faster time, then it would have been over for MS.

It was a risky situation and before the last minute in those conditions it was clear that at best one Ferrari can manage into Top10 and even that seemed unlikely. So better give the opportunity to get into Top10 to the driver, who was fighting for the WDC title. I remember Felipe watching Michael's last attempt in the garage.

---

I doubt that any team would sacrifice the chance to get both drivers into the top 10 just for the possibility to get ONLY 1 of them in there. Remember that they can't know in advance that MS will be 9th after his attempt.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

In a quiet moment the other day I got to thinking about the sudden turn around in young Massa's career. He's gone from that Brazillian guy who wrecks Saubers to Ferrari's potential next world champion in the space of 12 months...So tell me. What makes people think that Massa has what it takes to beat a defending double world champion and arguably the fastest guy on the grid?

---

Amazing what stepping into a winning car can do for a reputation eh ;)

Seriously though, Massa has improved since the days when he seemed to have trouble keeping the steering wheel pointing straight ahead! Then again, having been around since 2002 he should have done, and he can hardly fail to have learned from his time with team-MS at Ferrari. But racing as pupil/support to MS will be very different to competing with Kimi, and if he has retained any of the weaknesses we've seen from him in the past, they are likely to be exposed.

While Massa's improvement has impressed me, he remains more Takuma Sato-like than the successor to MS's crown. The only difference being that Taku has an Aguri to show off what talent he has.

I think Massa is a solid driver. If he makes the same improvements this year, at the same rate this year then he could very well beat Kimi. Though then again, I think Massa is a driver who is quite sensitive, and I think he could also crack and completely falter. I don't know is the answer.

Though last year, especially after some rookie kind mistakes, he did an outstanding job of supporting Michael, and was more or less equal to Michael except in the rain. I'm not sure if this shows how good Massa is, or if it shows Michael wasn't the driver he once was. Saying that, the Ferrari by the end of the season was so dominate I think the majority of the drivers on the field could have won a race. I doubt the Schumacher of the 90's and early 00's would have lost out on that title last year to a 25yr old with an inferior car for the majority of the season.

Massa has improved and he's a good driver, but I can't see him challenging Kimi at all. He remains a "B List" driver in my view, which still holds a lot of talent and ability.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raphael123

Though last year, especially after some rookie kind mistakes, he did an outstanding job of supporting Michael, and was more or less equal to Michael except in the rain. I'm not sure if this shows how good Massa is, or if it shows Michael wasn't the driver he once was. Saying that, the Ferrari by the end of the season was so dominate I think the majority of the drivers on the field could have won a race.

---

This might apply to everyone who drive Ferrari will make you get impressed as if they drive more than their ability. As a winning team they have a solid management in every aspect determining the final result of the race.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raphael123

I doubt the Schumacher of the 90's and early 00's would have lost out on that title last year to a 25yr old with an inferior car for the majority of the season.

---

This is because the 25 y/o is not an inferion driver

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by raphael123

I doubt the Schumacher of the 90's and early 00's would have lost out on that title last year to a 25yr old with an inferior car for the majority of the season.

---

I'm not so sure the Renault was really inferior to the Ferrari. {Fisi's was, but not Alonso's :) }

Massa will have his fair share of offs this year from pushing the car to it's edge. That's why I like the guy. Hope he does well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wmcot

I'm not so sure the Renault was really inferior to the Ferrari. {Fisi's was, but not Alonso's :) }

---

I think it was. If you take away Massa's driver errors he would have been miles infront of Fisi. Fisi made mistakes, but not to the same degree.

I think Michael would have won the title in 2006 if he was as good as he once was, because his car was the class of the field overall, though Renault had an edge at the start.

Oh now this is nice - real freaking cool Toad.

Massa - come over here and look in your lunch box - see my steamer for you.

Ferrari chief Jean Todt says the Italian team never considered world champion Fernando Alonso to replace Michael Schumacher.

The German seven-time champion retired at the end of last season, and he has been replaced by Finn Kimi Raikkonen at the Maranello squad.

Todt claims he chose Raikkonen over Alonso because he felt the Finn would fit better at Ferrari, although the Frenchman says both men are at the same level.

The team boss also admitted Ferrari came close to signing Alonso as a test driver a few years ago.

"I believe that Michael, Kimi and Alonso were the three best drivers during last season," Todt told Auto, Motor und Sport magazine in an interview.

"In the case of Raikkonen and Alonso I had to decide for one of them. Ferrari never spoke with Alonso. I chose Kimi. Both are on the same level, but Kimi fits better with Ferrari and with me.

"We spoke with Alonso's manager a few years ago and we were close to signing a test driver deal, but it didn't happen. But that is in the past."