Tracy

Perhaps this is just a little rant on my part about the merger and the situation so far with Paul Tracy.

I think it will be a terrible dishonor if Tracy can’t find a decent ride for this year. And yes who really understands what Gerry has up his sleeve if he’s holding Tracy’s contract and not fielding a team/car this year.

But what about KV Tech? What does Vasser think about all of this? He and Paul are long time friends and true supporters of CCWS over the years. Now they have Power and Servia driving for then. No loyalty among teams/friends in this sport as it seems. Like him or hate him Tracy been there to support the series. I know he could have had a good ride with NASCAR a few years back had he really want to drive in that series but he stayed true and stuck with CCWS and helped keep it in the spotlight from time to time.

Sure he’s still under contract with Gerry and I guess as long as Gerry keeps paying him there’s not a lot he can do about it unless someone buys it out. It almost seems like Gerry is screwing Paul to screw TG. You would think if that’s what keeping Tracy off the market then someone would step up and make a deal with Gerry. How about a one year deal, with Gerry having right’s to him next year if he decides to come back with his team?

Without Tracy this year then cross me off the Christmas card list as I won’t be supporting IndyCar. OW racing needs to learn that a lot of fans support there favorite driver(s) and without that they just go elsewhere. They also need to understand that oval racing in America is called NASCAR. You can’t compete with that.

Regards,

Krazy Knuck – Long, long time Tracy fan and big CCWS supporter. – End of RANT!

I agree with everything you said. The only thing that was going to make watching the IRL tolerable for me over the two transition years was watching Tracy chew up the track. I might consider taking a second look when they introduce the new engines and chasis in 2010, but by then I may not care anymore either.

If KK or TG don't get Tracy into a decent ride, it just shows how cluless they are. I mean, Oriol Servia, Ed Carpenter and Danica Patrick have rides, and PT doesn't?

Cluless.

Sounds like GF is holding his contract to try and extort more money out of the IRL.

Maybe if you had been smarter with Champ Car, you wouldn't be in this ridiculous position Gerry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Osiris333

I agree with everything you said. The only thing that was going to make watching the IRL tolerable for me over the two transition years was watching Tracy chew up the track. I might consider taking a second look when they introduce the new engines and chasis in 2010, but by then I may not care anymore either.

If KK or TG don't get Tracy into a decent ride, it just shows how cluless they are. I mean, Oriol Servia, Ed Carpenter and Danica Patrick have rides, and PT doesn't?

Cluless.

Sounds like GF is holding his contract to try and extort more money out of the IRL.

Maybe if you had been smarter with Champ Car, you wouldn't be in this ridiculous position Gerry.

---

I'm just confused at your post.

It's up to KK or TG to get Tracy into a ride for this year. OK, under normal circumstances, I can buy that.

But then you go on to admit that it may well be GF who is holding Tracy's contract to try and extort money form George and the ICS. I don't know if that is true or not, but, if it indeed is true, then I'm not sure I follow why KK or TG's failure to get Tracy into the series is the fault of those two. Are you suggesting TG should simply pay Forsythe's extortion money? Would you? I sure wouldn't if it were my money.

If that is indeed the case, blame the person responsible, not KK or TG. Blame Forsythe. Tracy has already made it more than clear he is ready to go racing in the IRL this year.

It's looking more & more to me that Forsythe is now the bad guy in this.

The latest on what Tracy says from AR1 (in part):

...Tracy says he approached a potential sponsor on behalf of Forsythe in the hopes of getting him back on track in 2008.

"I sent them [Forsythe] the details of the proposal, but I didn't get a response for three weeks," Tracy tells the Toronto Star. "Finally I phoned Neil (Micklewright) and he told me Gerry wasn't interested."

So Gerry can't even show Tracy the most basic common courtesy anymore?

With 30+ wins and a championship under his belt, at least he's HAD a career.

I really feel for the ones who came in after Paul, excellent drivers like Alex Barron, Richie Hearn, and Memo Gidley, fellows who did a lot with a little and never got the opportunity Paul has enjoyed.

Or how about drivers who performed extremely well, but never got out of, Atlantics--drivers like Case Montgomery, David Empringham, and Claude Bourbonnais (yes, I know he drove a couple of IRL races).

No, I don't give a toss if PT gets a ride or not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tbyars

I'm just confused at your post.

It's up to KK or TG to get Tracy into a ride for this year. OK, under normal circumstances, I can buy that.

But then you go on to admit that it may well be GF who is holding Tracy's contract to try and extort money form George and the ICS. I don't know if that is true or not, but, if it indeed is true, then I'm not sure I follow why KK or TG's failure to get Tracy into the series is the fault of those two. Are you suggesting TG should simply pay Forsythe's extortion money? Would you? I sure wouldn't if it were my money.

If that is indeed the case, blame the person responsible, not KK or TG. Blame Forsythe. Tracy has already made it more than clear he is ready to go racing in the IRL this year.

---

I agree, blame Forsythe. But if TG and KK don't think PT brings a legion of fans with them, they're wrong. I can't imagine too many people getting in line to buy Ed Carpenter, Townsend Bell, or Ryan Briscoe replica cars, but then that's me. What do I know?

And running a race in Canada with no Canadian drivers? No PT, no Tagliani, no Patrick Carpentier? Good luck selling that one.

db

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by keysersoze

With 30+ wins and a championship under his belt, at least he's HAD a career.

I really feel for the ones who came in after Paul, excellent drivers like Alex Barron, Richie Hearn, and Memo Gidley, fellows who did a lot with a little and never got the opportunity Paul has enjoyed.

Or how about drivers who performed extremely well, but never got out of, Atlantics--drivers like Case Montgomery, David Empringham, and Claude Bourbonnais (yes, I know he drove a couple of IRL races).

No, I don't give a toss if PT gets a ride or not.

---

So, you admit you're an idiot. Thanks for clarifying that.

Lets face it, there are not enough spare parts and cars for Tracy to be in the series right now!!! He is washed up. Anyone who thinks TG is gonna pony up for PT has never hear of a burned bridge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by flagman

Lets face it, there are not enough spare parts and cars for Tracy to be in the series right now!!! He is washed up. Anyone who thinks TG is gonna pony up for PT has never hear of a burned bridge.

---

Obviously you were not listenting to the press conference when the "merger" or whatever the hell YOU want to call it was announced. "...king George" went out of his way to mention Paul. Do you think that was lip service? I doubt it. He could very easily have said nothing about PT.

Know, "...king George" is not THAT stupid. He knows he wants PT in for at least the coming season if not longer.

Gary

26 drivers announced for the season opener. No PT. Man that sucks.

Do you think there is any truth to the Forsythe to ALMS rumors?

If so, do you think that is why Forsythe is holding onto Tracy's contract?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bennybigb

Do you think there is any truth to the Forsythe to ALMS rumors?

If so, do you think that is why Forsythe is holding onto Tracy's contract?

---

well there is a little truth as in... one of forsythes engineers was at sebring on a "fact finding mission" and got a mention on speeds coverage

Although my personal opinion is that is more a ploy to try and get Tony to pay Forsythe more money to enter PT into the IRL season.

Maybe a reason GF is holding on to PT's contract is to make sure that PT is at LB. Its the only selling point LB would have. If he were to go to an IRL team he would be in Japan most likely. Then who does GF have to market for LB.

I still think it's a a-hole move because it doesn't give PT a chance to earn points.

"I'm just confused at your post"

Try reading it.

"Alex Barron, Richie Hearn, and Memo Gidley, fellows who did a lot with a little never got the opportunity Paul has enjoyed."

Yeah, poor Gidley. Driving for that crap a** Ganassi team is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. You know why none of the guys you listed ever "got the opportunity Paul has enjoyed?" Because none of them was even remotely close to him on the track.

"No, I don't give a toss if PT gets a ride or not."

This is a prime example of why the IRL has no fan base after 12 years.

"He is washed up."

Coming from somebody who apparently watches a series with Danica Patrick, Dan Wheldon, Tony Kannan, Ed Carpenter and Ryan Briscoe in it...well what can I say?

Indycar needs this guy if they expect to get any of the Champ Car fans to watch.

I won't be. Thank god for F-1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Osiris333

Indycar needs this guy if they expect to get any of the Champ Car fans to watch.

I won't be. Thank god for F-1.

---

Some big threat. CC fans were never (supposedly) going to watch anyway. They swore they'd never watch a series owned by TG & swore they'd never watch the ****wagons.

OK. Don't watch.

BTW. I'd love to see Paul in the league. He does have a lot of personality and is still quite the driver. At this point it's pretty much up to GF as to if that's going to happen though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by downtowndeco

CC fans were never (supposedly) going to watch anyway.

---

Some of us, not of the ChamoCarFanaticDotCom ilk, will be! <big ol' grin>

Gary

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PTCrash3

I agree, blame Forsythe. But if TG and KK don't think PT brings a legion of fans with them, they're wrong. I can't imagine too many people getting in line to buy Ed Carpenter, Townsend Bell, or Ryan Briscoe replica cars, but then that's me. What do I know?

And running a race in Canada with no Canadian drivers? No PT, no Tagliani, no Patrick Carpentier? Good luck selling that one.

db

---

But, but, but, they've got a Canadian driver - Marty Roth!
Yeah, I know, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bennybigb

Do you think there is any truth to the Forsythe to ALMS rumors?

If so, do you think that is why Forsythe is holding onto Tracy's contract?

---

I don't know. Either way, what Forsythe is going is really crummy. PT doesn't want to be in ALMS. Forsythe can do the Captain Ahab routine all he wants with his own team, but holding someone else hostage is inexcusable. Anyone with the slightest bit of honor would release Paul to go do what he wanted if they were going in a different direction.

Curt Cavin show on http://www.1070thefan.com/listen/ is rumoring that Tracy may have a ride and may be on the show. It's on now. Help these guys get their ratings up.

Can't get on from work. Let us know what is said. Maybe somebody else is interested in the proposal Tracy sent to GF.

The story in today's (March 20) Toronto Sun is not hopeful. PT has no prospects and I am not sure if he has an out clause from Forsythe or not. Rumour I heard was that Vision racing had a spot for PT and he turned it down, but if he is contractually bound with Forsythe then there are complications. The sad thing is that weasel Forsythe went out of his way to keep PT out of NASCAR last summer when they came to Montreal (Kevin Harvick offered him the 33, which he ended up driving himself to victory in) and Gerry played hardball to keep PT under contract, to only kill the CCWS a month later. I wouldn't be surprised if PT doesn't have lawyers looking at a lawsuit for restraint of trade. I know I WOULD......

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nanders

Curt Cavin show on http://www.1070thefan.com/listen/ is rumoring that Tracy may have a ride and may be on the show. It's on now. Help these guys get their ratings up.

---

He's says he has had people from different teams approach him, and he can't get Forsythe to talk to him. He'll be at Long Beach but besides that he doesn't have a car to drive. He also said that he can't go out a seek another team until he is released from his contract.

Paul.....get a LAWYER. RESTRAINT OF TRADE is the way you go after Gerry. Of course...if Paul was on the ball, he would have NOT signed the damned contract...but there he goes trusting a rich man who had treated him well for 5 years.......and now isn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Osiris333

"Alex Barron, Richie Hearn, and Memo Gidley, fellows who did a lot with a little never got the opportunity Paul has enjoyed."

Yeah, poor Gidley. Driving for that crap a** Ganassi team is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. You know why none of the guys you listed ever "got the opportunity Paul has enjoyed?" Because none of them was even remotely close to him on the track.

---

I give you three drivers and all you can come up with is that Gidley drove 2/3 of a season for Ganassi? No mention at all that he outpointed Bruno during their time together, and still got shafted. As I said, bro, he NEVER got Paul's opportunity.

Have any idea why these drivers were not "remotely close" to Paul. Not even remotely close equipment. Barron was with Gurney's team for a season and a half, a handful of races for Coyne, two races with a then-lousy Penske team, and two with Frank Arciero. Paul drove one season with Coyne, then got Penske, Newman-Haas, TKG, and Forsythe.

As I said, nowhere near the opportunity.

Memo had lots of opportunities and didn't always do what people thought he should. Was he screwed? Ya...maybe...Barron and Hearn make similar claims. That said, the reason PT had good rides for years and years because even a blind man could see he was bloody fast. What he did in one RACE with Dale Coyne at Long Beach as a 18 year old kid set him up for life and I don't ever recall Barron, Gidley or Hearn making that same impression. PT is a senior guy now, maybe past his prime.....but he has the personality, the fan base and still enough residual talent to be an asset to any IRL team that was willing to buy the spare parts in bulk. Occasiaonally....Tracy makes a few omlettes and breaks a few eggs...but I still think he has a win or two in him, and I do recall that he is actually a better oval driver than he is a road course guy.

Paul Tracy once say he wouldn't drive one of those crap wagon and was a strong support of the Champcar series, even if the series didn't support him, but when someone brought up the fact he said he wouldn't drive in the irl, he dodge the question, by give a lame answer to the question,so I guess we all have a price.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starter

What you've overlooked is that as long as GF PAYS Tracy he has no cause for action. Unless the contract has some clause requiring an actual race entry, just getting a pay check, whether he drives or not, fullfills the contractural requirement. Now, if Tracy is NOT getting paid, that is a whole different kettle of fish.

---

Are you sure about that? I don't recall the details but I remember a case in California where someone had a non compete clause that applied while the person was drawing severance pay. The court struck down the non-compete on the grounds that it prevented the person from availing them self of opportunities that would have extended beyond the severance period. I wish I could remember more of the details.

Gary

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Champcar4life

Paul Tracy once say he wouldn't drive one of those crap wagon and was a strong support of the Champcar series, even if the series didn't support him, but when someone brought up the fact he said he wouldn't drive in the irl, he dodge the question, by give a lame answer to the question,so I guess we all have a price.

---

Or the right to change our minds. Don't look to Paul to fight YOUR fight with the reality that CCWS is no more.

Gary

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Champcar4life

Paul Tracy once say he wouldn't drive one of those crap wagon and was a strong support of the Champcar series, even if the series didn't support him, but when someone brought up the fact he said he wouldn't drive in the irl, he dodge the question, by give a lame answer to the question,so I guess we all have a price.

---

Excuse me, but I think PT said that while Champ Car actually existed. That makes a bit of a difference.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65963

found this article... maybe a grand-am appearance with tags

What i find sad is that 2 of my favourite drivers (that are not Australian) cannot find a ride in this rejuvinated indycar series. Tags wasn;t always a front runner but he was always competitive while Tracy's record speaks for itself. someone give him a ride? a second car for HVM perhaps?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starter

A non compete, essentially ending an employer/employee relationship, is not the same thing as a continuing contract for a specified time.

---

Yes I realize that, the point was that the findings were that by not allowing the employee to "ply their trade" immediately, it reduced their potential value once the severance period ended. I think the same sort of argument could be made here. By benching PT for the duration of his contract and preventing him from driving for anyone else during that time, he damages Paul's worth when the contract DOES expire. Paul possesses a skill that can be clearly shown to require constant practice, honing and development. By denying Paul the opportunity for those things he is damaging Paul's skill and thereby his ability to earn an income latter. I think any lawyer can pretty easily make a case with this argument.

Gary

He signed the contract., however a non-compete clause would require the parties to the contract, specifically the employer is still in the business would it not? If the employer is no longer in the business the competition clause pertains to, is it valid? Forsythe still has a race to run in Long Beach and has to field cars by contract. Also he is still owner of the Atlantic's series and a team in that series.

IMHO, he' throwing a tantrum and being a ***** to spite more than one party until he really gets around to deciding whether or not he wants to continue in racing. I think we can pretty much assume at this point that in exchange for his long term contract in a pretty tight no compete clause prohibits him from driving in ANY series unless GF puts him there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nigelred5

He signed the contract., however a non-compete clause would require the parties to the contract, specifically the employer is still in the business would it not? If the employer is no longer in the business the competition clause pertains to, is it valid? Forsythe still has a race to run in Long Beach and has to field cars by contract. Also he is still owner of the Atlantic's series and a team in that series.

IMHO, he' throwing a tantrum and being a ***** to spite more than one party until he really gets around to deciding whether or not he wants to continue in racing. I think we can pretty much assume at this point that in exchange for his long term contract in a pretty tight no compete clause prohibits him from driving in ANY series unless GF puts him there.

---

I don't think a non-compete is in play here. I only brought it up in the context of another case where the courts found that the terms of the non-compete damaged the plaintiffs ability to work AFTER the date on the non-compete expired. I think the same MIGHT be true for Paul's contract. If being benched for the next four years would damage Paul's ability to work after the contract is up, I think a case can be made to terminate the contract now or force Gerry into "unbench" Paul for the next four years.

Gary

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by downtowndeco

Some big threat. CC fans were never (supposedly) going to watch anyway. They swore they'd never watch a series owned by TG & swore they'd never watch the ****wagons.

OK. Don't watch.

---

WOW, thanks for the warm welcome. You know, some of us CC fans, that you seem to paint with a very broad brush, watched the IRL, before the merge. It's nice to see there is a snobish elitism going on, in this forum.

Jeff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cartpix

WOW, thanks for the warm welcome. You know, some of us CC fans, that you seem to paint with a very broad brush, watched the IRL, before the merge. It's nice to see there is a snobish elitism going on, in this forum.

Jeff

---

You're correct. I should have said "some CC fans" instead of lumping you all in together.

That being said you can't deny there are a few CC fans that won't be happy short of the IRL going BK & IMS blowing over in a tornado. Sore losers to the grave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by downtowndeco

You're correct. I should have said "some CC fans" instead of lumping you all in together.

That being said you can't deny there are a few CC fans that won't be happy short of the IRL going BK & IMS blowing over in a tornado. Sore losers to the grave.

---

Yes, I'll go along with that. Some CC fans are mad because the merge wasn't the CC season with Indy added (with a date change to not conflict with Laguna Seca) & run with DP01s. I'm not one of those. I'm not really a CC fan, I'm a race fan. I'll watch anything with wheels & some without.

Jeff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cartpix

Yes, I'll go along with that. Some CC fans are mad because the merge wasn't the CC season with Indy added (with a date change to not conflict with Laguna Seca) & run with DP01s. I'm not one of those. I'm not really a CC fan, I'm a race fan. I'll watch anything with wheels & some without.

Jeff

---

I'm a race fan as well. Watched almost IRL & CC race the last 15 years. Saw Mario win in person in L.B. Saw Eddie Hill's Top Fuel blowover at Pomona on a Thursday afteroon. I was at Fontana when Jimmy Johnson won his first Cup race & I've stood in 5 degree weather to watch snowmobile racing in Northern Wisconsin.

In any case, sorry for lumping all CC fans together. A few of them give you (and all motorsports IMO) a black eye.

Cheers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by garyshell

Or the right to change our minds. Don't look to Paul to fight YOUR fight with the reality that CCWS is no more.

Gary

---

First, second and third I know CCWS is gone and last this is what Paul say I was just quoting it,so this wasn't an issue of getting him to fight a fight for me, or for Champcar for that matter, but in racing, or any other business money does talk, just look at Dan the wonder boy he say he was happy at AGR,but the next season he was with another team.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starter

A non compete, essentially ending an employer/employee relationship, is not the same thing as a continuing contract for a specified time.

---

Starter, did the contract not end when not only the series which Tracy drove in, but also the team itself, closed shop? How can one be an employee of something that no longer exists?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IWUTitan90

Starter, did the contract not end when not only the series which Tracy drove in, but also the team itself, closed shop? How can one be an employee of something that no longer exists?

---

However do we know who the contract is actually with? Forsythe Racing Technology and Forsythe Championship Racing do still exist from what I read and from what has been said by the few people on here that I believe have some connection with FCR, they are still employed aren't they? They only said that they are NOT taking the IRL cash and cars and competing in the IRL/ICS. They ARE still a Champcar team at least until after Long Beach. Waht happens after that, I'm not sure even GF knows right now. If GF decides FCR is going to compete in Soapbox derbys and PT has a contract, then I suspect that is where he is leagally obliged to grab a wheel and cinch down the straps. Apparently it's pretty tight and GF has made no bones about enforcing the contract.